Serious HG failure on a built O-ringed 2L.. possible cause? (Pics inside)
Nov 25, 2013, 06:48 PM
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Serious HG failure on a built O-ringed 2L.. possible cause? (Pics inside)
Well, figured now would be the time post about this.. rewind to early august- i was getting ready to compete in the ESA class at the Buschur Shootout tuning the FP black on e85. could only push the car so far due to being limited by injectors (pte1200s).
Long story short, was maxed out with injectors, AFR's were solid. we concluded the tuning and was ready to hit the track the next day in search of a low 10sec pass and a 140+mph trap.
well that didnt happen, was mid thru 4th maybe about 6-7k rpm's and boom. smoke out the hood. popped the hood, radiator hose popped off was the first thing i noticed.. got the hose back on and start filling the car back up with water just to make it home (about a mile away) and i notice as fast as the coolant was being poured in, it was leaking out the side somewhere.. at this time, pissed, so i just towed the car home and a few days later had a chance to pop the t belt cover off to find the gasket blown right out the head.. car sat till after the shootout till i got a chance to pull the head..
few weeks later i pulled the head and was surprised by the damage done.
and heres what happened to the head
oh and the blow was so violent it cracked the upper tiiming belt cover
car is an evo9 with the following bottom end setup
10.5:1 2L wiseco/manley TT combo
oringed block
stock mitsu evo9 MLS HG torqued down to 95 lb ft via ARP L19 head studs
notes:
-sent the injectors to FIC to get cleaned/tested.. they came back perfect
-tested the fuel in the tank.. e83-e84~ via test tube
-plugs looked mint
-pulled bottom end to refresh and pistons/rods looked mint with break-in coating still on the bearings.. crank also looked perfect.
-After the failure, it was noted that the knock sensor was desensitized 25-40% across the rpm board.
-few months prior to this failure, a friend of mine has a FF 3586 setup on his VIII tuned by the same guy and he had the same exact failure in cyclinder #2 (vs #1 for me) i believe..
what could have caused this failure like this ?
Pete
Long story short, was maxed out with injectors, AFR's were solid. we concluded the tuning and was ready to hit the track the next day in search of a low 10sec pass and a 140+mph trap.
well that didnt happen, was mid thru 4th maybe about 6-7k rpm's and boom. smoke out the hood. popped the hood, radiator hose popped off was the first thing i noticed.. got the hose back on and start filling the car back up with water just to make it home (about a mile away) and i notice as fast as the coolant was being poured in, it was leaking out the side somewhere.. at this time, pissed, so i just towed the car home and a few days later had a chance to pop the t belt cover off to find the gasket blown right out the head.. car sat till after the shootout till i got a chance to pull the head..
few weeks later i pulled the head and was surprised by the damage done.
and heres what happened to the head
oh and the blow was so violent it cracked the upper tiiming belt cover
car is an evo9 with the following bottom end setup
10.5:1 2L wiseco/manley TT combo
oringed block
stock mitsu evo9 MLS HG torqued down to 95 lb ft via ARP L19 head studs
notes:
-sent the injectors to FIC to get cleaned/tested.. they came back perfect
-tested the fuel in the tank.. e83-e84~ via test tube
-plugs looked mint
-pulled bottom end to refresh and pistons/rods looked mint with break-in coating still on the bearings.. crank also looked perfect.
-After the failure, it was noted that the knock sensor was desensitized 25-40% across the rpm board.
-few months prior to this failure, a friend of mine has a FF 3586 setup on his VIII tuned by the same guy and he had the same exact failure in cyclinder #2 (vs #1 for me) i believe..
what could have caused this failure like this ?
Pete
Last edited by 4g63evoeight; Nov 25, 2013 at 06:56 PM.
Nov 25, 2013, 07:07 PM
#4
What ECU are you using? If AEM did you make sure your timing was sync'd so you were actually running the timing your balancer showed? Lots of people do not realize you need to do this.
Also, can you post a pic of the plugs so we can see the timing mark? Looks like it had waaaay too much timing like previously mentioned.
Also, can you post a pic of the plugs so we can see the timing mark? Looks like it had waaaay too much timing like previously mentioned.
Nov 25, 2013, 07:11 PM
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What ECU are you using? If AEM did you make sure your timing was sync'd so you were actually running the timing your balancer showed? Lots of people do not realize you need to do this.
Also, can you post a pic of the plugs so we can see the timing mark? Looks like it had waaaay too much timing like previously mentioned.
Also, can you post a pic of the plugs so we can see the timing mark? Looks like it had waaaay too much timing like previously mentioned.
plugs are long gone lol.. but the head is bare now as i salvaged all the parts i could
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Nov 25, 2013, 07:26 PM
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"-After the failure, it was noted that the knock sensor was desensitized 25-40% across the rpm board"
Knock, knock. The above is what happened, sucks to hear man. Since you know someone else who this happened to as well may want go over those ignition maps.
Maybe time to look for a new tuner.
Good Luck getting it back together
Knock, knock. The above is what happened, sucks to hear man. Since you know someone else who this happened to as well may want go over those ignition maps.
Maybe time to look for a new tuner.
Good Luck getting it back together
Nov 25, 2013, 07:33 PM
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i'll try to when i get a chance, roms and logs are on my other labtop
42psi spike
im not sure, i've got the most recent log ill look at it tommorrow
Thanks. i'll be out and kickin *** come spring/summer 
42psi spike
"-After the failure, it was noted that the knock sensor was desensitized 25-40% across the rpm board"
Knock, knock. The above is what happened, sucks to hear man. Since you know someone else who this happened to as well may want go over those ignition maps.
Maybe time to look for a new tuner.
Good Luck getting it back together
Knock, knock. The above is what happened, sucks to hear man. Since you know someone else who this happened to as well may want go over those ignition maps.
Maybe time to look for a new tuner.
Good Luck getting it back together
Nov 25, 2013, 08:05 PM
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Looking at another log the knock sensor was 4volts at the same area in which the OP said it blew up. At 6000-6200 the knock sensor volts where 4.1 and at 7k they also went above 4v. The rest of the "natural" curve was around 1.5-2.5v pretty even. It had 7 degrees @6k @ 41psi and 18 degrees @ 7700 @ 33psi
No IDC was logged, that was stupid all by itself especially knowing that your car has seen high IDCs. I think it went lean, but I also think it had a little to much timing advance for a high compression motor. E85 isnt magic and a "solid afr" over 4cyls doesn't mean that all 4 cylinders were equally happy.
Good luck the next go around Pete
No IDC was logged, that was stupid all by itself especially knowing that your car has seen high IDCs. I think it went lean, but I also think it had a little to much timing advance for a high compression motor. E85 isnt magic and a "solid afr" over 4cyls doesn't mean that all 4 cylinders were equally happy.
Good luck the next go around Pete
Nov 25, 2013, 08:19 PM
#15
You said you were on PTE 1200's? Please tell me you went to a bigger injector for your 40psi tune. If you didn't, you were LONG since out of fuel. That, and too aggressive of timing advance would explain the detonation that ate your headgasket.