Cold effectiveness? Sounds like F1 jargon to me. These cars do not have carbon in the pads or rotors obviously. They do require some heat initially but if fade and modulation gets progressively worse as the run goes on you know it's a combination fluid, line expansion, heat, gasses, glazing etc... Maybe look at the specs closely of the brakes on both cars. I assume the rotors are similiar, but are the pad materiels the same? I also would like to know if the Brembo calipers on the cars are different from each other and if they are really more of an OEM piece from Brembo or are they of aftermarket quality?

 

I seem to remember something about the computer control of the STi's braking being more aggressive than the evo.
Remember all the mag testers, usually the evo stopped shorter 60-0, but then 80-0 the STi had the edge.
As far as those who posted about the evo being more true to WRC because of the 2.0L, have you even seen the Lancer WRC 04? Besides being the ugliest rally car ever, it doesn't even share the basic body shape of the evo, let alone a single other mechanical component. At least the STi shares the same body and excellent aerodynamic design as the WRC car. Besides, to be true to rally heritage, shouldn't a car actually be competing in the WRC, I mean mitsu wasn't even there last year, and this year is a joke. That logic has been bugging me for a while.

 

No computer control on the STi.
The only thing that can be tuned on a non VSC(Vehicle Stability Control) or non ECA(Electronic Controlled Actuation) vehicle is the point at which ABS kicks in. The only other tunables are mechanical. i.e material choice of linings, rotor processing etc.

Well cold effectiveness is the term we engineers in the brake industry use for the initial stop of a cold lining on rotors. Its a term used by us everyday. Not F1 jargon!
Believe it or not we consider cold effectiveness even on a church van!

Take it for what its worth.....
What do I know LoL! Iv'e only been doing this for 7 years!

 

The SS brake lines do improve the pedal feel, but really all you need are better pads. I read the topic and didn't see mention of pads, which I may have missed, but the pads are the most important part of the system.

As you know the stock pads are designed for granny style street driving where you only hit the brakes hard once for a panic stop from 45-0 or whatever when a kid or dog or something jumps out in front of you on the street. The stock pads are great for 1-2 60-0 stops between cooling cycles, but that's the limit of the material. Fortunately the hardware is all good, and the ABS is decent, so all you need to do is swap in a set of higher temp pads and you're set.

I recommend the Performance Friction 97 compound pads for aggressive street/canyon use.

I say start with the pads, then if you still want more, go with SS lines and Motul RBF900 fluid. If you still need more go with the Stoptech braking kit for the front.

 

here in Hong Kong everyone change their pads as the very first mod. I am now on Lockheed Delphi (50-550c) pad and it stops much better than stock. It feels like 30% more stopping power at all time. The wheels now gets covered in brake dust after only one drive but it is worth it.
My friend is on a Jap product called Wads combined with his Projuct-Mu roto he stops another 30% better than me. I am going to try the Ferrodo DS2500 pad which is the most popular here. It is really dusty and sounds like a double decker bus but it should stop really well.
We do street race on twisty hill road, so the brake is more important than powerfull engine. Hondas are the street race king here, followed by Evos and Sti...

 

You may have seen it but didn't understand what I meant

I mentioned to change the friction material earlier

As I stated earlier....
So....
My suggestion is this.
1. Go with SS Jounce hose first. See what you think.
If your still not happy
2. Try a different friction material.
If your still not happy
3. Try a different brake fluid (may help keep fluid from heating up....hot brake fluid is bad btw)
If your still not happy
4. New rotors
Sorry for the engineering terms ....friction material = pads

I agree with the earlier poster that either changing the friction material(pads) or the Jounce hose is interchangeable. Obviously changing the friction material(pads) is easier than changing the Jounce hose cuz you don't need to bleed the system then. Try changing the friction material(pads) first since its easier to do and may fix your problem without tearing apart your corners.

 

Check out Stoptech's site: FAQ, tech articles, etc....

By the way, they have awesome SS lines too!

 

Nice!

 

Good info guys...

Here's my 2 cents for graded changes to your brakes to get the stopping results you want:

1. Upgrade to aftermarket brake pads... e.g. EBC Greenstuff, which I like.

2. Change to SS brakelines (e.g. Stoptechs, Earls, whatever as long as they have a good rep) and change your brake fluid at once... two birds with one stone and altogether a pretty cheap mod.

3. Get some new rotors... crossdrilled or slotted e.g. Project Mu or Stoptech, yadayada. Will cool faster and if you get a larger diameter, will have more surface area to clamp against.

4. Graduate to more pistons per caliper, e.g AP 6 pots or Endless. Obviously the most expensive change.

Mods 1,3 and 4 will change your braking dynamics. Mod 2 is for your break foot's pleasure.

My experience with the Evo is the brakes definitely need time to warm-up to get the best results and if they have time to cool, cold effectiveness comes into play.

Any word if the STi has SS lines?

Anyone know if changing the material of the rotors to one that provides more friction helps in breaking dynamics? It seems that it would, especially with the use of Carbon rotors in F1. My understanding is that Carbon provides increased friction without increased heat thanks to a low specific heat... anyone?

g

 

My suggestion: go a little west to route 17A (goes from rt. 17 to Greenwood Lake and off to Warwick), which has a 55 MPH limit in the straights and limits at about half that in the turns (most that are too tight for cops to hang out) and do the same test...that's my favorite twisty road in the area. 7 Lakes is good, but you could get in deep crap if the park police catch you (40 MPH limit I think??)..and 17A's twisties are longer.

 

Hooptie, is seven lakes drive between the bear mountain bridge and the tappan zee? Or am I thinkin of another road? I live relatively near to that area, so i definitely want to check seven lakes out.

 

Yup, I think there only 1 seven lakes drive in that area. Exit 18 off the palisades north. As for cops, I've never seen them up there plus the roads are pretty thin for them to camp out.

 

Well, I just got back from a two day high performance driving event at Virginia International Raceway. What a friggin amazing track! That place is a hoot! It's also serious punishment on your brakes, even for the nice Brembo set up on the Evo. After two laps which included barrelling down the front straight at 120 mph and standing on the brakes to prepare for the turn in for turn one, I was easily able to heak soak the Brembos and boil the factory fluid. I had a pretty good idea even before going into the event that the stock fluid wasn't going to be up to the task but my schedule was pretty hectic prior to the event and I didn't have the time to flush the fluid. What the heck, it's got Brembos, right? Heh, so what...

Fortunately Dan Hurwitz of Mach V was at the event. Since Dan had some spare Carbotech Bobcat pads and the track gift shop had some ATE Super Blue, I figured I could swap out the pads and flush the fluid in between runs. Unfortunately I didn't have the tools to do the fluid flush and ended up only changing the pads. I figured that practically anything was better than what I was running so I hit the track after bedding the pads.

My first run out I found the brakes were able to resist fade much, much better. In fact during the first run fade was virtually non-existant in comparision to my prior runs. Even as I progressed through my afternoon runs and began to drive much harder, fade, while not completely gone, was far more managable even using the stock fluid. I'm pretty sure fade wouldn't have been nearly as much of a concern for me if I had been able to swap to a better fluid.

Anyway, to make a long story longer, I finally bled out the factory fluid today and replaced it with some Ate Super Blue. It takes about 15 minutes using a Motive power bleeder. The fluid at the calipers was not the nice golden color you might expect to see on a car 6 months old with less than 10K miles. Eventually the fluid bled out clear but it was obvious to me that that the track time had boiled the fluid in the calipers. Along with the slightly milky fluid came some small flakes of debris. Whether this was from the track use or the fluid from the factory is less than virgin, I don't know. What I do know is that during my track use I managed to get the rotor surfaces up to at least 520 deg F. I know this because the rotor steel was blued from the heat. With sufficiently crappy fluid, reaching the boiling point probably wasn't much of a problem.

My experience only solidly confirmed what I had already known. While high mu pads may help, the factory fluid should be changed out before any sort of high performance driving event where the brakes will be heavily used. While it may be well suited for life on the street, there can be no comparison made with the duty cycle encountered in that environment and that encountered on the track.

YMMV

Steve

 

question, does slotted rotors also help reduce brake dusting in some way?

 

bump, wanna know the same thing