bolsen

iTrader: (2)

Or you could just hook up the bov wrong.... poof! No more lag!

eclipsegs2k1

nice write up! enjoyed reading and seeing all the pictures you took, very interesting. Glad to hear that you had good results

asdf

iTrader: (2)

Awesome! Professional looking job. Thanks for sharing. I love DIY stuff like this and mods that improve efficiency. Much better IMO than just slapping on a bigger turbo and throwing more fuel in the mix.

EVOeight

Thanks for all of the compliments!

chuntington101

very good idea mate, hope it does all you want it to! you just need to rig up some temp senders and see if it has cooled it any under the bonnet. glad to see you did the inside (i gess a bath as to paint on) aswell as this would be the first thermal bariear.

bolsen, mate, it has bin done before on a racing RS200 and yes it did work VERY well! with the propper anti-lag engaged there was no lag at all! LOL and with the manifold coated itwould be even better. wonder if they could do it to the turbine wheel and let you run bang-bang all day?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

thanks Chris.

EVOeight

I am not sure if you could ceramic coat the exhaust impeller. I think it would have to be balanced again after that. I have not hooked up any kind of underhood temp sensorsd but I can tell you that it has greatly reduced the radiant heat coming off of the manifold.

alex_alex

iTrader: (7)

you should offer this as a service. I, for one, would pay for it. . . so would many others that choose to go with turbo kits that retain the stock manifold

chuntington101

i was only taking the p**s mate. would be nice thought and i dont see why they couldn't make the blades from ceramic material. i think thats what the Ford WRC team did in 2000 as they ran such high exhuast temps that they kept melting steel or Ti ones. it ran so hot that a machanic touched the end of the exhaust and set his Nomex gloves on fire!!!!!

my dad also worked on the RB211 engine here in the UK designing the turbine blades. he said that they where manlly using alloys when he was there, but also that ceramics where just coming in! i bet it could be done (if not coating then complete blades) but it would cost a lot! one day maybe!

thanks Chris.

EVOeight

No, I would not offer this as a service because it was so much work. I just posted this in case someone felt inclined to do it themselves.

I have heard about the advances in making ceramic blades and shafts for turbochargers. They weigh much less and will stand up to extreme heat. I would love a ball-bearing center section and a cermaic shaft/blade assembly!

JT-KGY

iTrader: (3)

So you're currently running 3" cat with oem exhaust?
It fits?

Never mind.. just read it again... you already got Vishnu exhaust.
Awesome set up to say the least... very impressed..

DystopiaMagnate

Yep, "real" turbomachines, and by that I mean axial flow gas turbine engines moving tens to thousands of pounds of air per second, run super-heavily loaded turbine stages. In the highest performance engines, the turbine blades are made from single-crystal Nickel-based "superalloys". These turbines are then run to inlet temperatures beyond the melting point of the blades. It's possible because they use really elaborate cooling air schemes and because they use ceramic thermal barrier coatings (TBC).

Expensive? Yes.

The question is, aside from crazy racing engines, how much would you get from coating the turbocharger turbine? You'd make it heavier certainly. But more importantly, how would you be reaching EGTs high enough to make it worthwhile? You would probably hit fuel-based temp limits first. I guess it would make possible the awful "bang bang" "anti-lag" systems, but that seems to me to be a pretty inelegant way to do things. You can of course coat the turbine housing for more energy retention inside the turbine flowpath -- maybe a good idea for those trying to get the most from the stocker?

More elegant solutions are things like variable area turbines (done by Aerocharger, but my understanding is that these never worked properly and are not being made any more? -- also Garrett has the VNT series, but they're not available for the high-performance aftermarket) or electrically-assisted turbochargers like what Turbodyne created and recently ended up litigating with Honeywell/Garrett over. Honeywell won. How long before we see this demonstrated technology on high-performance turbos we can buy? The best of both supercharging and turbocharging worlds...

Fully ceramic turbine wheels would be cool too, but I think issues regarding brittleness and manufacturability are holding that kind of thing back. The current state-of-the art with respect to ceramics really disappoints a lot of engineers because we did in fact think (or hoped anyway) that we'd be using a lot of ceramics for key components in engines by now. Hopefully soon...

BTW chuntington: Cheers to your dad. The RB211 was a fine engine. Did your dad get a chance to work with the great Sir Stanley Hooker?

bamaevo

iTrader: (1)

This mod (ceramic coating the manifold) sounds like a great idea, but I have one question. Is there any concern that the ceramic coating could flake off some point in the future and find its way into the turbo blades?

chuntington101

Thanks DystopiaMagnate, I will pass your comments on to my dad. He was actually part of the team designing the blades (i.e. the cooling ducts). I have seen some cutaways of turbines and they are very intricate. The best bit was when some of the “engineers” where setting up the engines using a crow bar to “fine tune” them. Don’t know if he got to work on the other project. It was a long time ago and he hates talking about it! I will ask him for you though.

I re-read the article last night (about the Ford WRC) and they said they had a lot of trouble with the exhaust manifold not being “clean” enough. They had to do a lot of work on the welding techniques to reduce the chance of metallic pieces flying of and damaging the weak ceramic blades. They also said they where doing their best to minimise this problem and get back to using metallic blades of some sort. Oh to be able to nick one of their turbos from the Ford part bin! LOL

I also see your point about it being a bit of a waste of time as I think the gains would only me marginal. You would see more from making the bearings from ceramics I think, but again Garrett seams slow to take that up!

I agree about the lack of use of ceramics in engines these days. I have heard that there are several “improved” piston coatings around, but aside from a sort piece in a mag, that’s all you here of them. I also feel that the use of Ti in the EVO engine is slow in coming. I mean the Skyline has had Ti rods for some time but this had not bin passed down to the smaller engines. Also Ti valves, not used enough in standard or modified engines.

I have head of “variable vain” turbos being used on standard turbo diesels over here (I think the VW/Audi group where the first) but nothing on the performance side!

The electronic turbo ideas have bin flying around for a few years now. I think the principle is amazing. A turbo that you can turbo on and off and will give you whatever (within reason) boost you want whenever! But there are big flaws in the idea. Power is the main one. The motors would need to be big (read heavy) and the energy required to drive them is more than an alternator can provide. The compressor is not a problem. I was at the national Autosports Show over here and I saw a supercharger designed for a bike engine! They are tiny and give out huge power of their size. I have also seen a few turbo/supercharger combos. They are very good and if you could use one of these small superchargers to provided low boost and then let the turbo take over you could have the best of both worlds. Some race engine builders are now going down a different route. By making the N/A side of the engine work harder (higher compression ratio mainly) they can put a larger turbo on and get very good drivability on and off boost! But this put huge stress on the engine when it hits boost!

I’m sorry to have taken over this thread a little. I could go on all day about this stuff.

Thanks Chris

EVOeight

I sure hope that none of the ceramic flakes off from the inside of the exhaust manifold and damages the turbocharger. I think the ceramic is bonded very well to the metal so I am not really too worried about that. I would have to say that it is a possiblity though. I am very pleased with how it turned out and I will add to this post once a month and let everyone know how well it is holding up...

EVOeight

After driving hard for about 30 minutes it started to rain really hard. I was concerned that maybe the ceramic coating might not like the sudden temperature change and might crack. It didn't. It still looks just as good as the first day...