Twin Scroll Vs. Standard Scroll
Jul 22, 2004, 09:13 PM
#47
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JDB! holy ****.. I recognize that name from the Turbo ford list.
I've played around with some twin scroll housings and it does make a slight difference. In fact the turbo I played with was the GT32 which comes supplied from Garrett with a twin scroll housing. I ran into some boost creep issues with it and without trying to go with twin gates I switched to a T3 housing. The spool up suffered by a little more than 100rpm but it was not very noticeable. Also for comparision I ran an ITS (innovative turbo system) dual BB T70 with a Q trim wheel and a twin scroll housing. We built a custom header for it and it ripped up well over 650whp. We then tried a plain journal bearing T72 GTQ wheeled (regular single scroll T4 housing) from PTE and it spooled a little quicker and made over 20whp more at the same boost level thanks to the new GT exhaust wheel. What I'm trying to say is that it's important to have the right combinations of wheels to make boost and power. A twin scroll housing is icing on the cake but it does require some work to use it to your advantage.
-Martin
I've played around with some twin scroll housings and it does make a slight difference. In fact the turbo I played with was the GT32 which comes supplied from Garrett with a twin scroll housing. I ran into some boost creep issues with it and without trying to go with twin gates I switched to a T3 housing. The spool up suffered by a little more than 100rpm but it was not very noticeable. Also for comparision I ran an ITS (innovative turbo system) dual BB T70 with a Q trim wheel and a twin scroll housing. We built a custom header for it and it ripped up well over 650whp. We then tried a plain journal bearing T72 GTQ wheeled (regular single scroll T4 housing) from PTE and it spooled a little quicker and made over 20whp more at the same boost level thanks to the new GT exhaust wheel. What I'm trying to say is that it's important to have the right combinations of wheels to make boost and power. A twin scroll housing is icing on the cake but it does require some work to use it to your advantage.
-Martin
Jul 23, 2004, 07:13 AM
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Martin, good to hear from you and congratulations on your impressive performance in the EVO. I'll be calling you when I decide to get serious about mine!
Thanks for the input on the twin scroll testing. "Real info" from actual testing is hard to find.
JDB
Thanks for the input on the twin scroll testing. "Real info" from actual testing is hard to find.
JDB
Jul 23, 2004, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by lancerpartstrad
IHI VF38 is reg. rotation ball bearing twin scroll. Those manifolds allready exist.
Jul 23, 2004, 08:02 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by Fenris Ulf
Post a link to the twin scroll evo manifold setup for regular rotation.
Jan 19, 2005, 10:29 AM
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Here is a pulse converter manifold on an Alfa 2.0 turbo. The turbo is an old T04 converted to twin scroll. The primaries are ~30 inches and are ceramic coated stainless.
Originally the engine made 240 WHP @ 15 psi.
With the twin scroll the engine made 234 WHP @ 10 psi and 283 @ 15 psi. Lag was improved though I would like to see what a modern turbo would do... something like a GT 3017 or GT 3540 or something similar. Opinons...?
Fenris... you seem pretty knowledgeable here...
-Brian
Originally the engine made 240 WHP @ 15 psi.
With the twin scroll the engine made 234 WHP @ 10 psi and 283 @ 15 psi. Lag was improved though I would like to see what a modern turbo would do... something like a GT 3017 or GT 3540 or something similar. Opinons...?
Fenris... you seem pretty knowledgeable here...
-Brian
Jan 20, 2005, 06:01 AM
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[QUOTE=EFIxMR]my engineering friends tell me that twin scroll hurts top end performance, so we run 4 to 1 merges on our racecars.
Its hard for me to believe you would be intersested in "top end performance" running an intercooler like that.
JDB
Its hard for me to believe you would be intersested in "top end performance" running an intercooler like that.
JDB
Jan 20, 2005, 11:05 AM
#56
that air to water intercooler is made by laminova, and it is state of the art. no offense, but you don't know what you are talking about. mercedes benz runs a smaller version on their supercharged engines. another person with the same ic put down 700 whp.
Last edited by EFIxMR; Jan 20, 2005 at 11:12 AM.
Jan 20, 2005, 11:31 AM
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Actually, I am very familiar with the Swedish made Opcon / Laminova product line. I bought one of their L/A oil coolers over 2 years ago and have one of their 2 year old catalogs in front of me now.
I stand by my statement above.
JDB
I stand by my statement above.
JDB
Jan 20, 2005, 12:15 PM
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In OE applications such as Mercedes or the German Built GM Eco-Tec, they run 2 of the 45 MM by 332 MM cores for ~200HP applications. At the most, he could fit 4 of those cores in that housing making it efficient for ~4-500HP...... tops.
Now he wants to claim that someone has made ~800HP through that same intercooler..........I want to see that.
Now he wants to claim that someone has made ~800HP through that same intercooler..........I want to see that.
Jan 20, 2005, 12:37 PM
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JDB,
Comparative analysis can be effective at times... however in this instance I believe there are too many variables to substantiate your current position, that is why I asked for evidence, not anecdotal reference.
800BHP or more is easily achieved with an air-to-water IC. Questioning how long that power could be sustained would be a more telling question.
An equivalent to my motor (the Alfa above) has set a Land Speed Record at Bonneville running 24 psi and a small (ish) water-to-air IC. You should also know 35 pounds of ice was converted to gallons of warm water by the end of the run!
-Brian
Comparative analysis can be effective at times... however in this instance I believe there are too many variables to substantiate your current position, that is why I asked for evidence, not anecdotal reference.
800BHP or more is easily achieved with an air-to-water IC. Questioning how long that power could be sustained would be a more telling question.
An equivalent to my motor (the Alfa above) has set a Land Speed Record at Bonneville running 24 psi and a small (ish) water-to-air IC. You should also know 35 pounds of ice was converted to gallons of warm water by the end of the run!
-Brian