Options to Cool 4G63T
Jul 31, 2004, 04:52 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by Zeus
A few notes...
I bypassed the TB coolant lines within days of getting my Evo (hot azz Texas). There was no notable effect on idle or engine performance what so ever. TB felt to warm up slower, but that is subjective. I still do it on all my cars now just for good hot Texas measure.
I bypassed the TB coolant lines within days of getting my Evo (hot azz Texas). There was no notable effect on idle or engine performance what so ever. TB felt to warm up slower, but that is subjective. I still do it on all my cars now just for good hot Texas measure.
Jul 31, 2004, 06:47 PM
#62
Originally Posted by TearItUpSports
This is interesting. What are the coolant lines in the TB supposed to do? Is it just for cold weather start up, or do they have an advantage in other areas?
I know that after 60K miles, my previous cars started to have idle 'irregularities' and would sometimes die mid turn, off throttle. I would then take off the intake tube and clean the crap out of the TB. The idle was again smooth and no more stalling.
If you're running a catch-can, you probably won't have this problem if the catch-can is doing its job.
Jul 31, 2004, 07:25 PM
#63
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Orginally posted by mhgsx:
Look man, I'm not entirely sure why your reply is so defensive. I'm simply adding my own experiences with this product.
Look man, I'm not entirely sure why your reply is so defensive. I'm simply adding my own experiences with this product.
.You sound very worldly when it comes to coolant theory.
I've been running Watter Wetter sincce 1990. No problems, no "oily residue". maybe you blew a head gasket and had oil in you coolant?
Like I said, the overflow tank looked like $hit. I can't imagine what it might look like in the radiator and heater core. If oil is so good, why not replace your entire cooling system with oil?
So has the "Tornado" , Marvel Mystery Oil, etc. Your point?
I'm only giving MY personal experiences with this product. Besides, how often do race motors get teared down? How often does their coolant get flushed and replaced? How often are YOU going to flush and replace your cooling system for your car?
The same way motor oil contains buffers to control corrosion
You realize coolant also contain buffers to control pH, right? There's a reason for that
You realize coolant also contain buffers to control pH, right? There's a reason for that
Here's some info from their website:
Red Line Water Wetter® is designed to provide improved metal wetting and excellent corrosion inhibition when added to plain water or a glycol coolant. The most poorly maintained system in an automobile is usually the cooling system.
Water has twice the heat transfer capability when compared to 50% glycol antifreeze/coolant in water. Most passenger automobiles have a cooling system designed to reject sufficient heat under normal operating conditions using a 50/50 glycol solution in water. However, in racing applications, the use of water and Water Wetter® will enable the use of smaller radiator systems, which means less frontal drag, and it will also reduce cylinder head temperatures, even when compared to water alone, which means more spark advance may be used to improve engine torque.
Not every race guy will recommend water wetter. Trust me, I've asked.
Coolant is just for freezing and waterpump lubrication???
Coolant is just for freezing and waterpump lubrication???
Not all use or like it, but many do. I know, I've talked with MANY. I'm part of MANY.
You got me on the coolant just for freezing/lube thing. I didn't mention Water Wetter's corrosion resistance, because I thought it was understood.
So, I My Opionion ONLY, not mhgsx's, Watter Wetter with Distilled water is the best at cooling as long as there isn't any chance of freezing temps. If so, flush and add coolant/distilled water and watter wetter.
Jul 31, 2004, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mhgsx
My guess is that it is mainly used to keep the black carbon gunk from becoming too hard and causing the throttle body plate to stick.
Jul 31, 2004, 07:41 PM
#65
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Forgot to post the link to Water wetter. It has very good info:
http://www.carcarepros.com/CarCarePr...terWetter.html
http://www.carcarepros.com/CarCarePr...terWetter.html
Jul 31, 2004, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ColinL
bad guess; it is in fact for cold weather starting and quicker warm-up.
You could however do some neat things with these lines. For instance you could run a pump and run ice water through the throttle body, or perhaps a cold solid/gas like dry ice. Granted this would only work for drag racing, because the water/gas would quickly heat up to the same temp.
If you used quick connect hoses, you could do this while your car was in the pits or something.
Anyway it looks like tomorrow I will be removing these lines and just looping the one line to the in/out ports on the block.
Do I have to completely flush the coolant first or can I get away with just draining a bit of the coolant and just capping it off later?
Jul 31, 2004, 09:30 PM
#69
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Great. Post up your results.
As it is, My car is almost running too cool now.
I'd still like to cool off the intake charge. I'm looking at water injection, propane injection (more of an octane boost than cooling agent).
I'm also designing a cold air pickup for my HKS RS.
As it is, My car is almost running too cool now.
I'd still like to cool off the intake charge. I'm looking at water injection, propane injection (more of an octane boost than cooling agent).
I'm also designing a cold air pickup for my HKS RS.
Aug 1, 2004, 02:06 PM
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I decided not to do this today, as I am working on figuring out a good way to test the benefit of this. I need to figure out how to best take temperature readings from the manifold or throttle body.
Aug 1, 2004, 07:03 PM
#72
Thread has turned into a discussion of a buch of different things. I think I'll throw in my comments about cooling and heat in general.
-your car is going to make less power the higher the ambiant temp is. PV=nRT the hotter the air going into the intake the less dense it will be, unless you remove heat with something like spraying carbon dioxide etc on the IC.
-With RH of 14?% a water spray on the IC should be really effective to lower intake temps. Take advantage of it.
-good ol dH2O will transfer a lot of heat. It conducts heat quite a bit better than antifreeze. You can buy an anticrosion/water pump lube additive if you care to run pure water.
-Lower coolant temps reach a point of diminishing returns. Running cold water in the cooling system will hurt power. The cooling system is to remove "waste" heat from the engine, so as long as the engine does not run hot with how you use the car then your job is done.
-Watch your oil temps. Too low and you have pumping losses. Too high and the oil gets too thin to do its job. The EVO has the best looking stock oil cooler on any thing I've seen outside of air cooled Porsches (which are also oil cooled, my old 911 held 11? quarts. But that car was made before synth. oil was ever imagined for automotive use. It was also a dry sump system) Anyway 180F is supposed to be the best temp for the oil that is going back into the engine. 180 is based on relatively old info for dino oil, if anyone has any modern info on this please do post.
very much my $.02
-your car is going to make less power the higher the ambiant temp is. PV=nRT the hotter the air going into the intake the less dense it will be, unless you remove heat with something like spraying carbon dioxide etc on the IC.
-With RH of 14?% a water spray on the IC should be really effective to lower intake temps. Take advantage of it.
-good ol dH2O will transfer a lot of heat. It conducts heat quite a bit better than antifreeze. You can buy an anticrosion/water pump lube additive if you care to run pure water.
-Lower coolant temps reach a point of diminishing returns. Running cold water in the cooling system will hurt power. The cooling system is to remove "waste" heat from the engine, so as long as the engine does not run hot with how you use the car then your job is done.
-Watch your oil temps. Too low and you have pumping losses. Too high and the oil gets too thin to do its job. The EVO has the best looking stock oil cooler on any thing I've seen outside of air cooled Porsches (which are also oil cooled, my old 911 held 11? quarts. But that car was made before synth. oil was ever imagined for automotive use. It was also a dry sump system) Anyway 180F is supposed to be the best temp for the oil that is going back into the engine. 180 is based on relatively old info for dino oil, if anyone has any modern info on this please do post.
very much my $.02
Aug 1, 2004, 07:23 PM
#73
Nah, that sounds about right, and pretty much along the lines of what I was thinking.. I do think that you can run about 10 degrees cooler than that and not hurt things.. any less than 170 and you might likley hurt the power output a little..
The trick is twofold.. Get the temp to a consistent level (the thermostat) and let the coolant shed enough heat through the radiator.. so the thermostat should cycle open and closed to maintain that temp..
The problem is under heavier load, or racing conditions, where you can no longer shed the heat efficiently, either the coolant moves too quickly through the engine, or the radiator is unable to shed any more heat.. Thats partly why more isn't always better.. but you do need to start with a good radiator.. Its not going to lower your overall engine temp in most driving conditions, thats the job of the thermostat, but it will allow you to put more sustained use on the engine before it starts to run hotter than the thermostat's regulating capacity, and thats when you risk boilover, or other damage..
Its the combination of all of these things that makes for an efficient system.. and its a BALANCE... the thermostat also regulates the rate of flow of the coolant, so using different thermostats even with the same temp can raise the flow of coolant through the engine, the only problem is too slow and it only absorbs so much heat, too fast, and it doesnt absorb enough before it cycles through.. Engineers do things for a reason, so try not to go too crazy altering what they intended..
A safe "First mod" for a cooling system upgrade is better quality coolants, and more surface area (better radiator)
Running no thermostat at all is a BIG No-no.. something only seen on the drag strip.. It will be nearly impossible to regulate the engines temp since at different engine speeds, the flow rate of the coolant will be different (with a mechanical pump) Plus the engine will take forever to warm up, and likely never run correctly.
The trick is twofold.. Get the temp to a consistent level (the thermostat) and let the coolant shed enough heat through the radiator.. so the thermostat should cycle open and closed to maintain that temp..
The problem is under heavier load, or racing conditions, where you can no longer shed the heat efficiently, either the coolant moves too quickly through the engine, or the radiator is unable to shed any more heat.. Thats partly why more isn't always better.. but you do need to start with a good radiator.. Its not going to lower your overall engine temp in most driving conditions, thats the job of the thermostat, but it will allow you to put more sustained use on the engine before it starts to run hotter than the thermostat's regulating capacity, and thats when you risk boilover, or other damage..
Its the combination of all of these things that makes for an efficient system.. and its a BALANCE... the thermostat also regulates the rate of flow of the coolant, so using different thermostats even with the same temp can raise the flow of coolant through the engine, the only problem is too slow and it only absorbs so much heat, too fast, and it doesnt absorb enough before it cycles through.. Engineers do things for a reason, so try not to go too crazy altering what they intended..
A safe "First mod" for a cooling system upgrade is better quality coolants, and more surface area (better radiator)
Running no thermostat at all is a BIG No-no.. something only seen on the drag strip.. It will be nearly impossible to regulate the engines temp since at different engine speeds, the flow rate of the coolant will be different (with a mechanical pump) Plus the engine will take forever to warm up, and likely never run correctly.
Aug 1, 2004, 07:30 PM
#74
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I agree with most.
I datalogged the intake air temps with and without spray. I dropped 2 deg F with spray as long as I was going less than 35mph, above this the water just sprayed on the very botom, (I'm assuming due to the high air flow).
With the Ralliart thermostat and higher pressure rad cap, distilled water and water wetter, I run about 174-181F coolant temps.
It idles higher, (the ecu is trying to warm it up). I was sitting at a drive-thru with outside temps at 107F and the coolant temp never went above 174F!
When I went to LA this weekend for a re-flash (dynoflash), coolant temps were at 162F (at idle). A little too cool. I'll probably have to switch out thermostats here for winter/summer.
I datalogged the intake air temps with and without spray. I dropped 2 deg F with spray as long as I was going less than 35mph, above this the water just sprayed on the very botom, (I'm assuming due to the high air flow).
With the Ralliart thermostat and higher pressure rad cap, distilled water and water wetter, I run about 174-181F coolant temps.
It idles higher, (the ecu is trying to warm it up). I was sitting at a drive-thru with outside temps at 107F and the coolant temp never went above 174F!
When I went to LA this weekend for a re-flash (dynoflash), coolant temps were at 162F (at idle). A little too cool. I'll probably have to switch out thermostats here for winter/summer.
