KC

Well he's making stuff for the WRX too, but that's not even under the same manufacturer.

While I agree to a point that they should be included, I just sit here wondering.... what's interchangable between the EVos and what we know as DSM's? Hmmmm nothing at this time. Maybe a few screws and bolts?

bahamut

Oh, I know they exist. I'm willing to bet there are at most a dozen in the states with such conversion either a full blown tubed out car or pro class. If there are more (besides I being amazed), I was wondering why SCC doesn't explain such fancy. We all know SCC is H&A bias until driving an EVO.

I'm just prosposing will Mr. B allow such vehicle to possibily beat other dsm'ers at the shootout. I'm willing to bet it's the main sticking point why hardcore dsm'ers are so stuck on tech stuff being a dsm'er. If not, will other dsm'ers at whole will accept such a vehicle, especially their own event?

GPTourer

What do you mean by that, I mean he's selling WRX parts under the Buschur name right? Parts that he developed.


I think the "DSM" scene should be more or less the Mitsubishi community with the 4G63T as the standard for our growth. If we keep dividing ourselves then our communtiy will die. As mentioned the cars are getting old and currently the 4G63T isn't even in production in the States. All the H/A guys love the B and H series and it doesn't matter to them whether its under the hood of a Civic, 'Teg, Accord or Prelude, hell I saw a feature on a chick's CR-V that had a turbo and a Type R (or maybe a GSR) head on her B20 block. The new K series may have its downfalls but the swappability continues as well as the enthusiasm. In contrast with the DSM or Mitsubishi scene we've got one engine and one platform. And before all the 420A guys and 6G72TT people get all upset, I understand the support for your engines, but you are by no means mainstream. Both of those motors are defunct as far as new applications are concerned. And the current NA 6G72 and 4G64 motors aren't receiving much love. It would be stupid to start segregating our community when a fresh platform appears with the same motor just because of where it was built. Galant VR-4's are considered DSMs and they are the predecessor to the Evo (come people call them EVO 0's), so the new Evoultion should be included too.

In other threads people are blasting the upcoming USDM EVO for just being "a 4 door GSX" without its electronic differentials but here people are saying it's too different to be involved in DSM events. Now which is it? You can't have it both ways people.

bahamut

The H&A guys are all under the banner of VTEC and respect it. Other than that, each has their own styling and performance from good to terrible.

The Mitsu community is different. Ever since buying my mitsu in DEC 98, I have observed an enclave mentality amongst us. We have our engines and don't want to know anything about others. Also, demographics play a part in it too.

Example: When the new lancer launched in 02, locally, the dsm'ers were talking about the sedan. Overwhelming 85% of them classified the car as POS (biggest beef was the lack of power). 10% was apathetic, because it lacked a 4g63T. The rest voiced their approval but was shouted down by their peers. We know no one wants to be flamebait amongst their peers.

Also, we know or sense the great majority of dsm'ers don't approve of the 3g guys. Even when I'm amongst moderate dsm'ers in O-town, they tolerate them at best. The 3g guys race amongst themselves, and we, dsm'ers, race all comers.

BTW: I have yet to see any dsm'er wanting to take on a 3g with TC on the track for the past 2.5 yrs. Or vice versa. I have been to a dozen small and big drag events including test and tuning. It's almost like the 3g is a red-headed stepchild within a family of eclipse.

The above two are first hand observation.

Another possible example: Why would a 3kgt owner wants to read any spec on the paltry 1.5L and try to help any mirage owner? Get my drift. It's not worth their time, effort, or image to do so.

GPTourer, you seem to be a progressive thinking dsm'ers. When you look at your community as a whole, how many would think progressively as you under the banner of mitsu support versus enclave mentality. What are the odds on the 420a guys or the 6g72 owners?

You and I will have to admit the odds are too great to bridge the gulf between each engine enclaves.

hardcoretuner

whatever happend to it being just dimond star motors? why can't we all just get along, if your car has 3 red stars on it your a dsm i don't care about chassis code or n e thing or where you were built the dsm scene will die and it will either kill all mitsubishi's or it will give rise to the evo community closely followed by us because we have so much in common (not!!!) just change the dsm scene to a mitsubishi scene and all will be happy

as far as the "true" dsm's getting old my friend and i jacked his 1st gen eclipse up the other day and bent the frame what does that tell you?

hardcoretuner

so are we a "true dsm" ???????????????

Jonasan50

iTrader: (1)

Sure it is!! Why wouldn't it be.. You can basically transfer any aftermarket parts to the EVO from your turbo 4g63 in your eclipse.. Who cares where the hell it's made.. Well, kinda.. But, it's a isn't it?! No reason to be picky about it.. They all have the same badge

TearItUpSports

iTrader: (2)

Umm no. The parts are similar, but definitely not swappable. Other than gauges, I dont think a single part would be the same, but that is really due to the fact that the engine, tranny, exhaust etc are on opposite sides of the car.

Jonasan50

iTrader: (1)

I beg to differ.. My friends at Wrightouch Racing worked on an EVO V and "swapped" an upper intercooler pipe and HKS 272 cams from a 93 GSX onto the EVO.. Like I said, same types of parts.. Not everything of course.. But some things are indeed the same.. They might be aftermarket parts, but they "swapped" easily from one engine to another.. So it basically makes it the same..

GPTourer

I'm not so concerned with being able to swap parts. Part of the progress of making better cars means some sort of progression. As import tuners we are supposed to be on the leading edge of technology and being completely backward compatible to a car produced over ten years ago seems counterproductive. The fact that the basic foundation is there: 4G63T, AWD, fast ratio gearbox is all that matters to me. Even if the the engine were updated to a completely new design in a couple of years it still wouldn't matter. The fact that is has three diamonds on the grill and is meant for performance does.

Going back to the H/A parrallel, the US market never had the luxury of playing with MIVEC, or any other high-po motor from Mitsubishi - other then the 4G63T. I equate the 6G72TT to something like the Acura NSX. Yes it can be made to be very powerful, but few can afford it. With just one motor and one platform it is understandable why so many people feel so strongly about what defines the scene. I look foward to Mitsubishis new OZ Rally model with the DOHC motor, or whatever they call it, as I feel it is almost as important to Mitsubishi as the Evolution is. This may be the bread and butter "B16A" engine we've all been waiting for.

Evo8urWRX

I think it should b concidered a DSm..if anything the New-Age Dsm.next generation maybe.who knows..I think if it has the & the Motor.Its a DSM.Not CSM or what other names u want to come up w/.....All my friends are Hardcore 1G/2G Dsm owners and every single one of em consider the new evo a DSM.and so do all of the dsm ppl they know..its just a matter of time before its classified

bahamut

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/show...625#post304625

If people don't believe the existance of hardcore DSM'er with the mentality of damn all the rest. Just hit the above link to irrationality.

Whether the EVO will be accepted or not, those progressive DSM'ers will have to sway these type of people. As far as I know, no sane progressive DSM'er wants to argue with a hardcore guy.

Only the GVR4 have been made with some concessions.

Turboniam

That is a perfect description of the 3g Eclipse... I think the biggest resentment stems from those that were in the DSM scene prior to the 3g and we were all hoping for something new and exciting to be released... instead we got the 3g Eclipse!

Turboniam

I can NOT agree with this statement.

I am not a "hardcore" DSMer, BUT I do not like the term DSM used for any Mitsu because it is absolutely NOT TRUE.

As far as my opinion on the EVO being included in the DSM "community," I think it only makes senes.

Both cars use the 4g63T power plant.

To me that is THE most important factor in hanging out, tech talk, etc... because these two vehicles share alot of the same strategies in making more power (modding) it would be a shame to not think of them as very similar vehicles (although they have differences).

Think about how many DSMers are going to buy an EVO... I know lots of DSM owners who have 1 or more DSMs are planning on buying the EVO.

Turboniam

Not even close... you have a lancer.

Only 1G, 2G & GVR4s are considered DSMs!