Mike W

iTrader: (1)

Anyone that can't see the clear common denominator of the 1G FWD and AWD Turbo Eclipses, 2G FWD and AWD Turbo Eclipses, all EVOs and the GVR-4 is really missing the point and should really be ignored. It does not matter what you call them. You will never get an agreement on what is a "DSM" since there are too many vagaries about the term. There are many "legal" DSMs that are POS 1.8 SOHC powered and AWD turbo Eclipses that are not made by Diamond Star Motors. It is just mental masturbation to try to debate it.

If it has a Turbo 4G63 motor in it from the factory, I think the owners can find things in common to talk about.

Mike W

2GTSiAWD

The ONLY thing that the EVO shares with DSM's is the powerplant and even that is different to an extent. The EVO is a very unique vehicle and to associate it with a DSM isn't correct. Not to mention the DSM is the aggreement between Chrysler and Mitsu which made the diamond star. Since the EVO has no correlation with Chrysler it's not a diamond star.

BoostJunkie

I think this will come down to dollars and cents. The DSM's of old (1G and 2G) are getting old. As people buy more Evo's, this is going to steal the old DSM thunder. It will happen.

The aftermarket is going to notice the sales of the Evo. The aftermarket WILL focus more so on the Evo. Will the DSM die? No, i don't think so but it may make the old DSM group recognize the Evo even more than they already acknowledge.

Technologically we have many similaritys and differeces. The only thing keeping us apart are egos.

I have owned a 95 GSX and i currently have my 93 Talon TSi. My Talon has the Evo III engine (larger injectors/turbo and drivetrain). I have AWD. The technology is older but such a similar set up to the GSX you would think the Evo is basically a future version OF the GSX/TSi/Laser. We are the same people but many of us have grown up and what the same performance but have families to haul now.

Is my Talon no longer a DSM due to the older Evo III engine? We have the same "heart" people. I personally think this is what it is all about and i am talking engine and passion for the car here.

I am rambling here, but can anyone get this? I am of the older crowd. I'm 30, but i get it.

MrAWD

Hi Mike!!

Good to see you on board! Welcome!! I am sure that you will be able to bring some more light to the discussions that we have have here more then often!!

Fedja

bahamut

I always thought DSM was defined by 3 criteria.
1) made in the IL plant
2) 4g63T powerplant
3) same chassis

If mixing and matching, you open the doors to hybrids, and I think hardcore guys will resent such vehicle.

I'm sure there was a honda guy transplanting a 4g63T and winning races with the combo. Do most DSM'ers accpted him being a dsm? How about his fellow H&A drivers? To make the story short, both resented his achievement, and he went backing using honda powerplant. No one likes to be flamed on both sides.

Then, you have the extreme few with the 4g mirage with a transplant. Except for the local chapter of DSM'ers, will others call it a DSM?

What about the 3g mirage cyborg w/ the 4g61T? Similar enough engine but failed rule 1 and 3.

Yes, I admit the GVR4 have been made the exception with consessions from the diehard. It will fail rule #1.

Now, the EVO. It will definately fail rule #1 & 3. As as I know the Evo has always used stronger mirage and now lancer chassis. The only thing I can see the EVO using is DSM control arms and shocks/struts, and springs combo. It's a hell of a lot beefier.

If that's the case, are DSM'ers wanting to include the EVO, because it has a higher status value than the rest?


"There are many "legal" DSMs that are POS 1.8 SOHC powered and AWD turbo Eclipses that are not made by Diamond Star Motors."

I don't believe any DSM'er ever consider the 1.8 SOHC in the 1g a DSM. The same for the Dodge Avenger, despite the DSM badging from the factory.

s4awd

I feel that it should be included. The DSM guys have a wealth of knowledge about 4g63 motors with and without AWD. That is a fact that cannot be ignored. If I want to tune my Evo, I'm gonna look to DSM guys for guidance.

bahamut

BTW: This is a good topic. I'm trying to see the POV on all sides from the elitist "be damn everyone" to the progressive thinker on the subject.

If the EVO is added to the lot being DSM, despite failing the above rules that I have mentioned, it will open the doors for hybrids and veicles upgrading their powerplant from a g61T to g63T.

Speedlimit

Well ..... if I get the one I want, I will be taking it to the DSM shootout in Norwalk OH in July. I am pretty sure D. Buschur wants to see lots of EVO's there.

If you can take it the shootout, then it must be a DSM.


Speedlimit.........

Mike W

iTrader: (1)

Which is exactly why it is mental masturbation to discuss it. Personally, I have some experience with what the "hard core DSM'er" will put up with. To give you an idea of what the pecking order is, there is a "Club DSM" meet at a park one day... The following cars show up:


1G FWD Turbo
2G AWD (runs 11s, looks stock)
3G 4 cyl stock
88 Hyundai Excel with a 4G63 turbo motor/tranny swap
99 Mirage with a EVO IV motor/tranny swap
1G 1.8 SOHC auto tranny
2002 Lancer with a RRM turbo kit
2G NT
3G 4 cyl with a custom Garrett 50 trim
2G NT with a HRC turbo kit
2002 Lancer
GVR-4
3G V6 stock
3000GT VR4
Starion Turbo
1G FWD 4G63 NT
US EVO bone stock
89 Mirage Turbo stock
89 Colt with a 4G63T, 20G turbo
2G FWD Turbo
1G AWD, 16G
3G V6 with a DDP turbo kit
2G AWD with a Godzilla body kit, neon's, white leather interior and air bag suspension


Of the group, the following guys are Lord God King and get all the chicks, they spend all day with their hoods up telling war stories :
US EVO bone stock
89 Colt with a 4G63T, 20G turbo
2G AWD (runs 11s, looks stock)
88 Hyundai Excel with a 4G63 turbo motor/tranny swap
99 Mirage with a EVO IV motor/tranny swap


These guys are all cool, get along fine:
1G FWD Turbo
89 Mirage Turbo stock
GVR-4
2G FWD Turbo
1G AWD, 16G


The following are tolerated, they even get to have some of the pizza, mostly they keep to them selves:
2G NT
2002 Lancer with a RRM turbo kit
2G NT with a HRC turbo kit
3G V6 with a DDP turbo kit
3G 4 cyl with a custom Garrett 50 trim
1G FWD 4G63 NT


The following are pants'd, their underwear pulled over their head and their girlfriends get stollen, they leave in tears:
1G 1.8 SOHC auto tranny
2002 Lancer
3G V6 stock
3G 4 cyl stock
2G AWD with a Mothra body kit, neon's, white leather interior and air bag suspension


The following guys have nothing in common and no one talks to them, they go home confused:
3000GT VR4
Starion Turbo


Mike W

ru4real

You left out the 1G FWD 4G63 NT

Is he in the group that is tolerated?

Mike W

iTrader: (1)

I fixed that omission. BTW, it is totally acceptable to show up with your Maxima if your DSM is in pieces at the time (which is usually quite often ;-)

Mike W

Speedlimit

MikeW,

Your list will be perfect with one small change.

Please remove the the 88 Hyundai Excel with a 4G63 turbo motor/tranny swap from the top group and move it to the bottom. Kindly promote the 1G AWD, 16G to the top.

A 16g indicates a clear understanding of the balance needed relative to intake and exhaust and that size doesn't matter. Chicks respect that.



Thank you.

Speedlimit.....

Mike W

iTrader: (1)

Hahaha, no way. There you are on the freeway in your 5.0 Rustang, your GF is draped across you stroking your Mullet hair doo... a little '80s Hyundai rolls up on you and it _seems_ like he wants to race you. No effing way, kid must be on crack right? So you stomp on the loud pedal to lose the kid and instead of losing him, he just freaking blows your doors off. He even slows down and does it again mid-pull just to rub it in. What the hell do you do? It was a Hyundai for crying out loud! Your GF leaves your pathetic *** and you become a heavy drinker. It does not get any cooler than that. All the So-Cal DSM guys let Ruby hang with them.





Mike W

GPTourer

Okay, here we go again with the "mental masturbation" if I may borrow the term from MikeW, my car does not have a DSM sticker, the partnership had dissolved by the time it was built, but I am still okay since my car was a product of the engineering of the JV, fine.

My point is, just exactly WTF was Chrysler's input into all of this, really. I mean, perhaps they just stroked a check to help build the factory, but they needed Mitsu's help to provide small engines for their cars - they still do today, but was there really any input into the engineering of these vehicles on their part? Perhaps an American stylist drew up the body style, but that person could have easily worked for Mitsu, but I get tired of Chrysler getting all these props for this joint venture which makes us DSM's. We all drive Mitsubishis - plain and simple. That's why 420A Neon powered 2G's and Avengers get left out in the cold. Just because your car has Eagle or Plymouth written on it on the outside, when you pop the hood its all kanji, rice and chopsticks. (And I say that with the utmost respect for the Japanese) You would never be able to show up at a Mopar meet with an Eagle Talon or Plymouth Laser, beat those guys and get any pizza, chicks or props, you would most likely get an ***-whuppin'. The 3G's represent new thinking from Mitsu as the Eclipse moved on to seek other buyers, so they should just team up with the 8G Galants and do their thing elsewhere. Where would someone with a 7G Galant and a 4G63T swap fall? DSM.

So let's just keep it simple. Mitsubishi + 4G63T + AWD (GSX, GVR4, EVO) or FWD (Tsi, GS-T) = One Love and let it be all good. Cool hybrids like Miralutions, Hyundais, or Galants should be part of the extended family, like cousins so to speak.

P.S. I mean really, could you picture an '92 Laser Turbo sitting next to a '70 Hemi 'Cuda at the Mopar nationals and their two owners trading war stories? Yeah right.

sblvro

iTrader: (2)

i think all of the mitsubishi products be part of the dsm(diamond star motors) whether it be the suvs, all the galants, diamante. if not, then why change the exclusivity imposed by dsm on themselves and now with the upcoming evolution revolution they want to take it with open arms? no amount of definition will change whatever rules they made before unless they make it open to all mitsubishi products. if it is just the evo they want, you know what it means, status, reputation and an all out bandwagon mentality.