timzcat

iTrader: (10)

Can I add Torsqepower to the poll. LMFAO

You know it's the combination of both.

trinydex

iTrader: (12)

bigger motor also creates more surface area for which the combustion can take place which puts more effective force on the crank shaft which produces more torque.

torque is torque... it is not work although they share the same units, rotational energy is different which is what should be measured and taken into consideration.

horsepower is is just a measure of work per unit time. as pertaining to engines, it is how much chemical energy is turned into mechanical energy in a given amount of time to do mechanical work. in the nittyty gritty inside the engine sense, it is how much the combustion has moved the pistons along in a given amount of time. this of course is a different number than the energy that is in the crankshaft because it is rotating, same system but two different numbers because one is applying forces nad transfering energy to the other BUT one is occilating and the other is rotating, similar but significantly different.

to give a better example... energy is force multiplied by distance, the work of the pistons can be simply calculated by saying the first pair of pistons move this much and the second two move that much and the addition of works is linear addition. the crank shaft "uses" the units of rotational kinetic energy which is torque multiplied by the angle displaced, hence the equation of hp= tau (x) rpm/constant. where the constant sorts out the ugly stuff.

torque is purely the number that descrbies how much force is put on the crank shaft (or to the wheel) a by the pistons (which are powered by the combustion of gasoline) the crank shaft and the wheels being a certain distance away from what is making them rotate.

to clarify the wheel gets put on a dyno let's say. the dyno is putting a restrictive force on the wheel while it moves, this is a negative torque because the force is a distance away from the center of the wheel (the place where the wheel is powered), the engine battles this negative torque and how much it battles is what shows up on the screen nad your dyno sheet. at the crank shaft, the crank is spinning but the pistons are the ones spinning it, they're removed a distance from the crank shaft and hence apply a torque to it, which is converted through a servies of pulleys and transmission and transfer case and differentials into the wheels.

the only thing i wanted to know with this was....

if i have a 9.8 hot side with a ti/al wheel and i have a 10.5 hotside with a ti/al wheel, which one will make more torque everywhere and which one will make it sooner and which one will be more responsive and which one will be best for carving public roads that no one drives on.

WildRice

Let's get back on task and on topic shall we. What kind of mods will develop more torque than HP with an evo engine? Remember that if you choose torque you must limit pm to 5200 since at 5225 your torque to HP ratio is 1:1.

I want my car to move and that requires the engne to rotate and that produces HP. Again, torque is a static force which develops HP. To get power our of a 2 liter engine you have to spin it.. if I could change the laws of physics I would. BTW I have a steam engine that develops 200 continuous HP at 200 RPM so I think I know what torque can do (it makes me money).

Still want to argue? fine! let's reduce this to absurdity. I challenge all of you on the torque side to a bench race. My car will feature a real life engine that develops zero torque your entry must be powered by a real world engine that develops no HP. I choose the engine from the Saturn rocket. I may have trouble finding a driver and I may need to come up with a way to get thrust up before launch but you get the point.

trinydex

iTrader: (12)

^ HAHHAA that's a good one... a rocket! that certainly produces no hp.... you can't really avoid power tho cuz power is the conversion of one form of energy to another over a period of time.

at the same time... is the rocket an engine? isn't it just a rocket booster? iunno how the saturn rocket works... but then again... this is prolly engine in teh sense of powerplant which is changing aluminum rocket fuel into propelling waste gases...

KevinD

iTrader: (56)

hehehe that is funny. a rocket is an engine, and it does make a massive amount of hp, but no torque..i was trying to think of something that made zero hp but huge torque, the only thing i could think of was a really big lever applying an instantanious force on a car... but that doesn't really exist

l2r99gst

iTrader: (2)

HP is just a number that lets you know where the torque is being made. You should always be concerned with the torque curve. If a car has high HP, it just tells you that it makes higher torque later in the RPM band.

HP is more a gimmick word really. For example, Car A makes 1000HP, car B makes 500 HP. Which would win in a race?

You can't answer that unless you see the torque curve, period. If the 1000HP car makes that 1000HP at redline, over a 200 RPM powerband, then he better have like 20 gears and shift faster than lightning to keep in that powerband.

If the 500HP car makes 500ft*lb torque from 2000-5000, it would destroy the other car. It's a lot eaiser keeping a car in the 2000-5000 range from shift to shift.

Eric

umiami80

iTrader: (1)

Think of it this way, Torque is the power your car makes, that's it, you only feel torque, HP is a Myth.

Horse power is the RATE in which HP is applied to your wheels.

MuslimEvoFreak

iTrader: (39)

What mods can you install on the EVO to gain torque???

jcnel_evo8

iTrader: (2)

Wild, I still don't think you grasp how you are using the horsepower and torque terms. What you are basically saying is that you want to make your car faster ...

From the equation Horsepower = (Torque * rpm * constants), can you seperate Torque from Horsepower? No. You make more torque, you make more horsepower, you make more horsepower, you make more torque. Now I just did a nasty little word trick in that I in my mind held rpm constant.

For a car to be street fast overall (minimizing shifting), you have to get the most Torque over the most rpm possible.

A rocket engine does make a force, but since its not rotational, its not technically Torque. Remember that Torque is rotational "force." Our tanny and tires take it from the output of the engine and put it to the ground and make linear Force so that our EVOs go down the road in a straight line ... just like a rocket.

So ... yes ... a rocket motor puts a "force" on the rocketship, and if you measure the force per some amount of time, you get power.

jcnel.

P.S. History side note: The word "Horsepower" was derived from somebody that make the claim that you can take 1 Horse, and have that horse pull "up" (against the Force of gravity) on 33,000lb and move that 33,000lb one foot up (against gravity) in one minute. I may be wrong on my numbers, but the 'gravity', 'up' and 'time' are all correct.

P.S.S. Here's a brain buster ... constant velocity transmission, (rather constant velocity on the input) ... your motor runs at a static rpm (never changes) and the transmission output changes to keep your wheels moving faster. How does the motor keep making more power while only running at a static rpm? Well ... it starts to flow more air as you get going, aka its air pumping effenciency goes up and the transmission keeps changing to keep the wheels moving faster, and faster, and faster.

BMan

generally speaking, torque is made in lower rpms, horsepower is made in higher rpms. An engine with long rods has more stroke and will produce more torque, but can't spin that fast without blowing apart. An engine with short rods (less stroke) will have less torque and more horsepower because it can spin faster.
Torque will give you more pull and if you have high gear ratios, will out perform a horsepower motor, at the cost of breaking things.
Horspower will give you high rpm response and pull on the big end. To get a high horspower car to be good at pulling, you need very low, close gear ratios.
Now at the other end, high rpm causes more heat and wear, a low rpm engine will last longer than one that runs at high rpms but, if wanted to do 200 miles per hour, I'd want high horsepower. For a daily-driver, short-track car I like torque.
Yes, a rocket creates huge force...and then is spent, done, gone, which works great to push out of earths gravity, but a train can pull huge loads every day, day after day.

lowkey

iTrader: (5)

I’ll take horsepower because HP is basically the speed at which you make torque.
Big trucks that haul heavy loads have lots of torque but relatively low horsepower.
I have never lost a race against a semi

Mercenary3

iTrader: (1)

the whole thing: "you feel toque not hp stuff" really isnt true. The body feels its won acceleration. That "holy crap" feeling you get when a fast car really gets on it is your innards moving out of position from the acceleration of your body.

A lot of you guys are forgetting how an engine works. IC engines are not about power, or torque...its about impulse.

Remember what and engine ACTUALLY does...its small explosions going on at a rapid pace. There is no constant toque, ever. When and engine is at low rpm, the volumetric efficiency allows more air to burn with fuel per cycle. At higher rpm, the volumetric efficiency is lower, meaning less air is burning per cycle...but there are more cycles per given time period.

Engines work kinda like this: Imagine there is a heavy object on the ground. And you can move it by punching it. Would you rather take very large, powerful punches every so often...or weaker punches at a lot faster rate? Ideally, you want hard punches at a fast rate. The punch force is your "torque". The rate at which the object moves is indicative of "horsepower".

Mercenary3

iTrader: (1)

^ is why F1 cars are so fast even though they dont have that much "torque." They produce good torque at 16k rpm. Medium punches, very, very, very fast

jcnel_evo8

iTrader: (2)

F = ma

F: Force
m: mass
a: acceleration

This is regardless of rocket, piston, rotary, or turbine engine.

Torque: rotational Force

Think of a motor as an air pump, the more air you pump, the more power it can produce.

j.

WildRice

Trina yes by definition a rocket motor is an engine and I know you ment no torque not the "no HP" you typed.

I have been enjoying this discussion tongue in cheek.

Argue as you will, with any practical gearing the power band will be above the 5252 rpm torque/HP crossover point. Unless you are going to keep the engine under that point it is a mathmatical certainty that HP will increase with torque and that the HP value will exceed the torque Ft. Lb. value. In my book that means it is more a HP generatilng mod than a torque improvement mod. Therfore, it is simply more practical to think HP rather than torque when working to improve power generation from the two liter 4g63 mill or any modified variations there of.