View Poll Results: What do you preffer?
More Torque
144
76.19%
More Horsepower
45
23.81%
Voters: 189. You may not vote on this poll
Torque or Horsepower
Apr 6, 2005, 12:35 PM
#76
impulse is just the average force over a very short period of time... or rather a very short duration force over any period of time... a rocket motor does not produce an impulse... although you may feel an impulse when the rocket suddenly fires and breaks the inertia in the system, but that is not a true impulse... an impulse is something like impact wrenches and hammers... apply a distict force over a very short period of time in order to maximize the impulse force.
Apr 6, 2005, 01:02 PM
#77
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Originally Posted by trinydex
impulse is just the average force over a very short period of time... or rather a very short duration force over any period of time... a rocket motor does not produce an impulse... although you may feel an impulse when the rocket suddenly fires and breaks the inertia in the system, but that is not a true impulse... an impulse is something like impact wrenches and hammers... apply a distict force over a very short period of time in order to maximize the impulse force.
Impulse: the product of the average value of a force and the time during which it acts
Eq: Impulse = Force*time
Units: Nsec = N * sec
Anyways ... the point I was trying to get to was you can extract Newtons (force) from the way a lot of rocket motors are characterized as their average Force, but you knowing how long the burn is.
Thanks for the catch,
Cheers,
jcnel.
Apr 6, 2005, 04:28 PM
#78
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Well Why won't somebody just state an easy explaination and be done with it?
Torque is the power the engine makes.
Horse Power is the Rate in which it is applied to the wheels. 1 cannot exhist without teh other except mathmatically.
I was reading about this electric car that had the most torque at 0 RPM's heh, and it drop as the motor turned and increased in revs.
Torque is the power the engine makes.
Horse Power is the Rate in which it is applied to the wheels. 1 cannot exhist without teh other except mathmatically.
I was reading about this electric car that had the most torque at 0 RPM's heh, and it drop as the motor turned and increased in revs.
Apr 6, 2005, 05:28 PM
#79
that's because torque isn't the power that the engine makes... it's literally the rotational force that the engine makes. power is a concept, one that is related to the change of energy over a period of time. horse power is literally that... power... which is... as stated... energy change over time.
the electric motor is an new anomoly in automotive engineering terminology and methodology because it can produce all of its torque instantly... which means the peak amount of torque is produced as soon as the "gas" pedal is pressed and the engine is turned on. this is also due to the fact that the electric motor switches on and off... no need for a clutch even, but there still remains a need for gearing.
honstly... this is all very sciency... and it's not even necessary... i already summed up the info that is really needed... if you wanna make more outta yer car... take care of efficiency first... and as far as automotive tuning is concerned... the only thing you wanna tune is powerband... tuning for torque and hp is just not the type of field you wanna be in... speaking about powerband is much more practical and applicable.
the electric motor is an new anomoly in automotive engineering terminology and methodology because it can produce all of its torque instantly... which means the peak amount of torque is produced as soon as the "gas" pedal is pressed and the engine is turned on. this is also due to the fact that the electric motor switches on and off... no need for a clutch even, but there still remains a need for gearing.
honstly... this is all very sciency... and it's not even necessary... i already summed up the info that is really needed... if you wanna make more outta yer car... take care of efficiency first... and as far as automotive tuning is concerned... the only thing you wanna tune is powerband... tuning for torque and hp is just not the type of field you wanna be in... speaking about powerband is much more practical and applicable.
Last edited by trinydex; Apr 6, 2005 at 05:30 PM.
Apr 6, 2005, 08:38 PM
#81
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Originally Posted by umiami80
But it is, its the force it can apply to the wheels or what ever it spins.
They are cousins, but not the same thing.
j.
Apr 6, 2005, 09:17 PM
#82
Originally Posted by umiami80
But it is, its the force it can apply to the wheels or what ever it spins.
seriously it must sound like nitpicking but this is physics... and i'm a physicist and these small details about units and measurements aren't just nomenclature... it's the real physics behind all the jargon. the subtle difference makes all the calculations possible and makes all the calculations make sense.
that's exactly why i'm sayin' you guys shouldn't even be bothering with what is torque and what is horsepower... bother more with the power curve cuz that's more relavant... the physics theory is only useful in understanding EXACTLY how things work... but doesn't help so much when you want performance outta yer car and you gotta tune it on the ems.
mainly becuase you can toss physics theory around all day... but at the end of the day it's still theory and there's many variables that have many margins of error and when real life rolls around the story can completely change. things interract and that complicates things even more.
Apr 7, 2005, 07:24 AM
#86
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Originally Posted by trinydex
and i'm a physicist
Chaulk one up for the science guys!
Real life experience ... there are plenty of motors out there that produce a ton of horsepower per liter disp. because they can move a lot of air ... what keeps Ducati Twins winning races? Power delivery and vehicle tractability with that power. Maximizing the overall torque or horsepower curve helps make an automobile both more responsive, and perform better.
As for my vote on this discussion ... I would like neither high-end torque, nor low-end torque on my EVO. It would like a really strong mid-range (3000-6500).
j.
P.S. Do engineers count?
Apr 7, 2005, 08:48 AM
#87
Originally Posted by trinydex
yes rotational force is torque which spins things... force doesn't spin things, torque does.
Horsepower is a measurement of work and never really belonged in the automotive terminology.
I am not trying to argue, I think this whole thread is a waste of time. When someone wants to talk about making the car only weigh like 2000 lbs then I will be happy.
Apr 7, 2005, 09:19 AM
#88
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Originally Posted by timzcat
I am not trying to argue, I think this whole thread is a waste of time. When someone wants to talk about making the car only weigh like 2000 lbs then I will be happy.
For me, this discussion has been one of the best discussions on the terminology of power, torque, the misconceptions of such, and ultimately what people want out of the EVO.
0.02.
jcnel.
Apr 7, 2005, 06:37 PM
#89
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I would like neither high-end torque, nor low-end torque on my EVO. It would like a really strong mid-range (3000-6500).
That's a shame, You aughta try what I did, 3000-8200 Rpms, now THAT's fun.
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