Turbo442

Last night I was browsing through Car and Driver and Road and Track at the news stand. As most people here already know, both April issues feature first impressions of the US EVO. Just as expected both writers reported predominant handling characteristic of under steer while under power. Want to tighten up your line? Just tap the brakes or chop the throttle. Personally, I hate having to have to kill my drive out of a tight corner just to get the car to rotate. Yes I am sure most people’s initial impression of the car will be AWESOME!!! That’s what will happen when you jump from your mom's Camry or your buddies .84g WRX into a .97g EVO. What sucks is that many of us are already cruising around in modified DSM's that are similar in specs to the EVO. It’s pretty common to find AWD DSM's with 8" rims, 12.5" rotors, 550 injectors, front mount and big 16g's. Heck you could put together a nice 2G AWD with these mod’s for close to $10,000 if you shop around a bit. Many AWD DSM owners are familiar with the handling characteristics of the standard AWD setup. Mitsubishi, if you are listening out there, please make ACD and AYC an option for next year on the US EVO. I think $2000 is a fair price for the option. We can call it EVO J-spec or Active-EVO. Oh and please throw in the 6 sp while you are at it, it sounds like it may shift even better. That way I can drift past all of the non active diff EVO's on the inside of the corner as they plow around the outside using all of the driving skill they can muster.

Jonasan50

iTrader: (1)

What's the matter... Don't know how to drift your DSM now?? With or without the ACD/AYC, it won't behold a problem for me... In either of my rides... Just drop the nose a little and let it all slide out... Then juice it!! Hang on!!! Here we goooo... AAAHHH that's nice.... What a ride....

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

Actually most of the articles refer to the fact that the car is neutral on power on the way out except for very tight corners. They are actually paying the car a compliment saying that a lift of tap of the brake will adjust the car, that makes the car adjustable therefore fun. They have raved about the cars ability to drift into and through the corner (talking about the sport ABS, EBD and good balance on the power on the way out) does that sound like excessive understeer to you?

I have a 91 talon w/ coilovers, camber plates, big brakes etc. (I have won the SM class each time I have entered the car)...Compaired with a "modern" car It handles like crap! Why you ask? Simple, the Unibody compaired to a EVO is a noodle! No amount of suspension tuning or upgrading will fix this (unless you do a full cage that ties in ALL suspension pick-points. Then there are improvements in geometry, stiffer suspension pieces (aluminum!), The list goes on and on. Look up all the stuff in the EVO Encylopedia on this site, the upgrades will amaze you At first glance they look similar, dig deep and you'll see all the upgrades

I am all for this, no matter how much better the EVO is over a Talon/ Eclipse it can always be better (junk the AYC though)

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

One more thing...neither of these guys can drive very well, The're very few journalists that are truely good and those exact comments tell the story. You have to read between the lines with most of them. They are nice guys that write well and are mostly enthusiasts but that does not make them talented behind the wheel, therefore their observations are based on their own ability and perspective

There are good guys at C&D (just not the reviewer for the EVO), A couple of decent guys at SCC, One good guy at MT, One at R&T (just not the EVO reviewer), Several good guys at EVO (just not the EVO VIII reviewer), and several good guys at Car (Just not the EVO reviewer who was the same guy from EVO Mag.) See what I mean? Unfortunately most of the guys who were sent to Taiwan wern't top tier guys for some reason.

pm me if you want to know why I know this stuff

trigeek37

We need to get Tiff Needle (sp?) from BBC Top Gear over here to flog the **** out of the US Spec Evo8! Tiff is the man!

MrAWD

I understand where your writing is coming from since I am in the same boat. I also share your cravings for the ACD, but not for the AYC. Somehow, somewhere along the last few months, I changed my mind about the AYC. Well, now there is a Super AYC with better diff inside, so things might get better, but as of now, I am craving for the ACD only!

Now to the second part, understeer. Actually, before that, I would like to say the way I see the US EVO now (after all the hype that we had around the announcement and before that) is an advanced version of the DSM that I drive. It has following things improved over the DSMs:
- better and stronger (build wise, not power wise) engine,
- way better brakes,
- stiffer body,
- very strong transmission (now without the intermediate shaft in there),
- both differentials (center and front) now positioned in the transfer case.
- quicker steering (without the power surges)
- better rear differential
- larger tires (now we can use 265/40/17 or 275/40/17 and keeping the same OID)
- better weight distribution (front left is not 100+lb over the front right any more)
- and probably few more that I am too old to remember right now...

No we can touch that understeer as you mentioned. This can be corrected by so many different ways. One of the ways is an ACD, and that would be sweet!!! Bet we don't have that available right now, so let see the other options.

1. As simple as to settings in the rear could help you to remove any power on understeer. Even something small as a 1/4" of the toe out would give you a very light rear end.
2. Higher rear end will also act as a push removal tool
3. Stiffer rear springs/sway bars would also help in this fight
4. Removal of some rear camber is one of them as well
5. Better shocks (if you increase rebound in the front, it will make the car to move that end much quicker and that would affect the rear, by swinging it out at the initial turn in)
6. Narrower tires in the rear would help to lower the push too
7. JDM EVO8 front diff install
8. and I am sure there are more things to add here, but considering my age, this should do it!

So, we have so many things now that we can fight this problem and change the behavior of the car from the slight push to dangerously loose. It will be up to each one of us to decide how dangerous we want to live!!


Fedja
ps. one more thing - those guys that are describing the car one way or another might not be on the same page as you are regarding to what push really is. Friend of mine would say for my car that is very loose, while I call it tight most of the time

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

Guys Good stuff! I'm in total agreement!

MrAWD

WOW!! Remembering how we started at the beginning, we are doing pretty good lately!!

Here is another round on me

Fedja

Jonasan50

iTrader: (1)

Wait!! I gotta treat you to a round as well guys...

Guack007

Beer for all. Great points MrAWD. Can't wait till march.

Turbo442

I agree there are many things we can do to make a DSM oversteer while under power. Personally, I adjust front to rear roll stiffness....less bar in the front and more in the rear. I like using sway bars because they dont hurt the ride quality. I have a feeling that probably 2-3 mm larger dia rear sway bar might make the US EVO handle a little more neutral. This is based on my previous experience with how US Mitsubishi's are set up. I am sure this setup would be a handful in the rain though which is why all AWD's are setup to have understeer.

Does any one know what the J-spec EVO's are using for sway bars? Do we know if they the same as the US model yet?

Couple of other points. I think a welded in roll cage can really stiffen an older DSM chassis if done correctly. They are used for more than just safety reasons.

For anyone unsure of the termnology of loose/tight. Think of what the rear axle is doing.
When a driver is complaining that his car is 'loose', that means the rear end wants to come around. This is an oversteer condition.

When the car is 'tight' that means his rear axle is staying put and the car will understeer (push)

Any way I just wanted to get some people talking with out starting a flame war.

P.S.
MR AWD. I have tried some wicked negative camber settings and still push pretty bad. Of course when you unleash 25 psi on 100 unleaded with alcohol injection you will light up all three 225x17 RE 730's and leave thee nasty black strips through the corner. I just would like to have some type of steering control while this is happening. Chopping the throttle will rotate the car, but who wants to do that.

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

Try some toe out in the rear and a little in the front. Narrower rear rims, big rear bar (as you suggested), stiffer rear shocks / springs (loose ride) and lots of rear tire pressure, stand the rear tires up. there that ought to do it

MrAWD

I think they are all the same!

When I mentioned negative camber for the rear, it was meant in more positive ways. In other hand, less negative camber in the rear will make that end of the car to loose grip sooner than the front, so car will be rotated in the right direction.

As of your setup, seem to be quite similar to mine except that I am using 110 octane gas and 245 race tires.

The greatest improvement for me was a move from the singe adjustable Bilisten shocks to the triple adjustable Penskes. That basically allowed my front end to really works and I gained huge amount of grip on that end. Also, tunability of those shocks allowed me to change the frequency of each end, which helped me to tune how fast each end needs to bite. Even tough, I had to pay a lot of $$$, it was a very well worth investment!!

Good luck!!



Fedja

Turbo442

So what is up with all of the videos I have seen with people drifting stock looking EVO VII's?