Road Trip w/ E46 M3, Impressions/Comparison
Jun 14, 2005, 10:52 AM
#1
Newbie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Road Trip w/ E46 M3, Impressions/Comparison
Just got back from a 1900 mile roadtrip from Houston, TX back to the Bay Area, CA. We flew over there to pick up my buddy's 2003 E46 M3.
Impressions/Comparisons after the 1900 mile drive:
Of course there is the obvious differences due to the fact that the cars are in completely different classes so I won't start getting into how comfy and nice the M3 is on the inside. Also the difference in price has nothing to do with what I'm comparing. All I'll say, is that from the start, it was obvious that these cars were built for different purposes.
Steering/Suspension/Handling:
This is tough for me to gauge since I have Zeal Function Xs on my Evo, but there were a few things that were obvious to me.
The M3 steering is great, just like the other 3 series I have driven. The feeling is very precise and automatically you have that "BMW feel" for the road and the car. The Evo steering, which is personally one of the reasons I bought an evo, is more aggressive and more twitchy than the M3. The evo requires more concentration for daily driving, but feels tighter in transitions and tighter for sharp cornering.
The M3 has a great chassis and obviously has a stiffer suspension than other 3 series I have driven. This along with the heavier weight makes the car feel very planted around higher speeds and wider turns. The general feeling I get is that the M3 feels more like a rock around corners, very solid and predictable. My Evo feels much lighter around corners but feels like it has exponentially more grip (AWD). The suspension on my car is much stiffer than the M3 with the Zeals, which has its obvious advantages and disadvantages.
I'll make a top gear'ish statement which sums it up very well. The evo is more of a F16 fighter: lighter, more agile, more aggresive while the M3 is like a F15 fighter/bomber: heavier while very solid.
Performance:
The M3 gearing took some getting used to along with its higher revability, but there is the obvious huge improvement in response over any turbo car. It was hard to compare raw acceleration between the two cars with the huge difference in gearing and powerbands (only one way to find out later i guess). I have a works p2R and works drop in filter in my evo
Another thing is that I think the Evo is less forgiving for unexperienced drivers. The onset of boost is very rough on new drivers. I think someone on this board put it perfectly: "the evo slaps you in the ***, and sends you home crying home to mommy"
Summary:
I love both cars! The evo is a drivers car for pure performance. The BMW is the best "fast with class" car i've ever driven. My unbiased view is that I would love to own/drive either right now, and the evo seems like its more suitable for the track, but in 10 years my view will probably change. Things like style and comfort would probably mean more to me then!
I know there are a lot of people on this board that own both an evo and an M3, and also a few that went from their M3 to their evo. I'd love to hear all your comments! I'll post some pics of my buddy's new baby later.
-Jeff
Impressions/Comparisons after the 1900 mile drive:
Of course there is the obvious differences due to the fact that the cars are in completely different classes so I won't start getting into how comfy and nice the M3 is on the inside. Also the difference in price has nothing to do with what I'm comparing. All I'll say, is that from the start, it was obvious that these cars were built for different purposes.
Steering/Suspension/Handling:
This is tough for me to gauge since I have Zeal Function Xs on my Evo, but there were a few things that were obvious to me.
The M3 steering is great, just like the other 3 series I have driven. The feeling is very precise and automatically you have that "BMW feel" for the road and the car. The Evo steering, which is personally one of the reasons I bought an evo, is more aggressive and more twitchy than the M3. The evo requires more concentration for daily driving, but feels tighter in transitions and tighter for sharp cornering.
The M3 has a great chassis and obviously has a stiffer suspension than other 3 series I have driven. This along with the heavier weight makes the car feel very planted around higher speeds and wider turns. The general feeling I get is that the M3 feels more like a rock around corners, very solid and predictable. My Evo feels much lighter around corners but feels like it has exponentially more grip (AWD). The suspension on my car is much stiffer than the M3 with the Zeals, which has its obvious advantages and disadvantages.
I'll make a top gear'ish statement which sums it up very well. The evo is more of a F16 fighter: lighter, more agile, more aggresive while the M3 is like a F15 fighter/bomber: heavier while very solid.
Performance:
The M3 gearing took some getting used to along with its higher revability, but there is the obvious huge improvement in response over any turbo car. It was hard to compare raw acceleration between the two cars with the huge difference in gearing and powerbands (only one way to find out later i guess). I have a works p2R and works drop in filter in my evo
Another thing is that I think the Evo is less forgiving for unexperienced drivers. The onset of boost is very rough on new drivers. I think someone on this board put it perfectly: "the evo slaps you in the ***, and sends you home crying home to mommy"
Summary:
I love both cars! The evo is a drivers car for pure performance. The BMW is the best "fast with class" car i've ever driven. My unbiased view is that I would love to own/drive either right now, and the evo seems like its more suitable for the track, but in 10 years my view will probably change. Things like style and comfort would probably mean more to me then!
I know there are a lot of people on this board that own both an evo and an M3, and also a few that went from their M3 to their evo. I'd love to hear all your comments! I'll post some pics of my buddy's new baby later.
-Jeff
Last edited by Stormtrooper; Jun 14, 2005 at 10:55 AM.
Jun 14, 2005, 12:46 PM
#2
Evolving Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hoffman Estates, Illinois
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was his E46 M3 an SMG or manual? Did you try the Sport Mode?
When I first bought my M3 I couldn't really put into words how I felt when driving it. You've actually verbalized what I've been trying to explain to myself with your narration and observation.
I agree with everything you said 100%
When I first bought my M3 I couldn't really put into words how I felt when driving it. You've actually verbalized what I've been trying to explain to myself with your narration and observation.
I agree with everything you said 100%
Jun 14, 2005, 01:29 PM
#3
Newbie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by HIGH REV
Was his E46 M3 an SMG or manual? Did you try the Sport Mode?
When I first bought my M3 I couldn't really put into words how I felt when driving it. You've actually verbalized what I've been trying to explain to myself with your narration and observation.
I agree with everything you said 100%
When I first bought my M3 I couldn't really put into words how I felt when driving it. You've actually verbalized what I've been trying to explain to myself with your narration and observation.
I agree with everything you said 100%
yeah thats one of the hardest things I think... there is a lot of feeling/character you can't describe so well with words...
Jun 14, 2005, 01:47 PM
#4
I traded my SMG M3 for my EVO 3 months ago. Had it for 3 years and 32000 miles. I have to disagree with your statement that the M3 is more forgiving. Driving the M3 at the limit with DSC off is much more dangerous due to the M3 RWD setup.
If the rear end breaks loose at the wrong time your in big trouble... the EVO is MUCH easier to learn to drive fast and the AWD gives me a sense of security powering out of turns that I didn't have with the M3.
I miss the solid feel of the M3, the instant throttle response, linear power delivery, awesome sound of the S54 at 8000 RPM, paddle shifting and rev-matching with SMG, luxury, beautiful styling, etc.
However, my modded EVO now has 303-327 WHP (road race tune) depending on octane (Utec w/Map Switch) and a ROBISPEC suspension and would beat a stock M3 by a few seconds on any track carrying 3 passengers (equal drivers).
Stock M3: ~$55,000,
Modded EVO:~$35,000
If the rear end breaks loose at the wrong time your in big trouble... the EVO is MUCH easier to learn to drive fast and the AWD gives me a sense of security powering out of turns that I didn't have with the M3.
I miss the solid feel of the M3, the instant throttle response, linear power delivery, awesome sound of the S54 at 8000 RPM, paddle shifting and rev-matching with SMG, luxury, beautiful styling, etc.
However, my modded EVO now has 303-327 WHP (road race tune) depending on octane (Utec w/Map Switch) and a ROBISPEC suspension and would beat a stock M3 by a few seconds on any track carrying 3 passengers (equal drivers).
Stock M3: ~$55,000,
Modded EVO:~$35,000
Jun 14, 2005, 02:02 PM
#5
Newbie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi lbcevo,
Yeah sorry I didn't make it clear. When i said unforgiving, I only meant in terms of the power delivery... and not handling! Yeah, we actually never turned off DSC for exactly that reason. Espeically since it was a new car to both of us. How do you explain that one.
"uh yeah we were on our way back from picking up the car but crashed it!"
Yeah sorry I didn't make it clear. When i said unforgiving, I only meant in terms of the power delivery... and not handling! Yeah, we actually never turned off DSC for exactly that reason. Espeically since it was a new car to both of us. How do you explain that one.
"uh yeah we were on our way back from picking up the car but crashed it!"
Trending Topics
Jun 14, 2005, 05:57 PM
#8
No additional powertrain loss w/SMG. It is the same 6 speed transmission w/clutch, just that everything (clutch and grear change) is operated electrohydraulically by ultra-high pressure pumps. It can shift in less than 1/10 of a second (.08 sec)
At the highest setting (S6, Sport Mode, DSC off) shifting at redline results in major rubber from 1-2, and a little rubber from 2-3--that's wheel spin at 60 mph. Then there's launch control, which unlike the 05 EVO, truly controls all aspects of the launch (throttle AND perfect clutch modulation) except shifting.
At the highest setting (S6, Sport Mode, DSC off) shifting at redline results in major rubber from 1-2, and a little rubber from 2-3--that's wheel spin at 60 mph. Then there's launch control, which unlike the 05 EVO, truly controls all aspects of the launch (throttle AND perfect clutch modulation) except shifting.
Jun 14, 2005, 06:21 PM
#10
Evolving Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by plokivos
how the hell do you go about comparing a n/a coupe with RWD and 6 cylinder engine to a Turbo charged engine salon with AWD that's FWD based that has 4 cylinders?
Jun 14, 2005, 06:23 PM
#11
Evolved Member
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 700
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^^ I agree with plokivos, but the evo is unlike many other 4 door, 4 cylinder, turbo sedans in thats its a freak of mechanical engineering! Evos defy physics, and slap the "norm" right in the face
Jun 14, 2005, 06:38 PM
#12
Newbie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hehe did you even read my comparison? The comparison wasn't to gauge which one is BETTER, but how the driving experiences DIFFER between the two. In fact this was more of a M3 driving impression with reference to my own experience in the evo. I even stated that they are in completely different classes and that REAL factors in buying such as price aren't what I'm talking about.
I don't know about you, but one of the reasons I bought my evo was because I CAN compare the driving pleasure and performance with cars like the M3. I guess you aren't a fan of any of the other comparisons organizations like Top Gear: Lambo vs FQ400, etc. For me those are the most fun to watch cause you not only can you really see the raw capabilities of our cars but also you get to see the differences.
I guess maybe you haven't read enough comparisons between the evo and STI cause it sounds like thats the only thing you think is relevant....
I don't know about you, but one of the reasons I bought my evo was because I CAN compare the driving pleasure and performance with cars like the M3. I guess you aren't a fan of any of the other comparisons organizations like Top Gear: Lambo vs FQ400, etc. For me those are the most fun to watch cause you not only can you really see the raw capabilities of our cars but also you get to see the differences.
I guess maybe you haven't read enough comparisons between the evo and STI cause it sounds like thats the only thing you think is relevant....
Jun 15, 2005, 06:24 AM
#15
Great observations!
I have the same coilovers, Zeal function Xs, and they've made my Evo so much more enjoyable. Night and day difference to stock suspension.
I actually find that the Zeals have more compliant ride than stock yet it provides insane grip around the corners.
It's hard to imagine a better setup...
I have the same coilovers, Zeal function Xs, and they've made my Evo so much more enjoyable. Night and day difference to stock suspension.
I actually find that the Zeals have more compliant ride than stock yet it provides insane grip around the corners.
It's hard to imagine a better setup...