DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

I have been getting lots of questions on email and PM asking what I think of the White Rabbit turbo

I wanted to make a post so that I do not have to answer so many questions

I think its a great bolt on turbo - and that it can give you a nice gain over a STOCK TURBO

Forced Performance's claims on its web page are accurate :

This turbo is the result of the last 2 years of product development. Our goal was to produce a bolt-in, stock appearing turbocharger for the EVO4-8 platform that outperformed the stock turbo.
We went through many prototypes, some pretty poor to be honest, before satisfying our initial design criteria.

The turbo had to spool up like a stock turbo and not give up any bottom end torque. The turbo had to sustain boost in the top end without dropping off, at least enough to maximize power on standard 93 octane fuel.

The White Rabbit is the first level of "bolt in" upgrade turbocharger for the EVO4-8. This turbocharger provides an advantage over the stock turbocharger without giving up any of the boost response of the stock turbo. Retaining stock like spool up was the first priority for this upgrade. The second priority was to deliver additional airflow capacity so that the characteristic top end drop off of the stock turbo was eliminated. These two design constraints were met while at the same time allowing for high boost operation that significantly improves power over the stock turbo at boost pressures above 22psi. Some instances realized a 70+whp increase at 7000rpm compared to the stock turbo.

What this turbo is not - It is not a voodoo enriched black magic turbo that spools like a stock turbo and makes topend power like a GT35R. We are all limited by the laws of physics. Maintaining stock spool characteristics means retaining the factory equiped TD05H turbine wheel, either in TiAl or Inconel form. Either flavor will hit a brick wall when the choke flow rate of the TD05H wheel is reached. The secret is finding a compressor aero package that can get the most out of the TD05H exhaust wheel. This sounds easy enough, but it actually turned out to be one of the tougher challanges we have ever faced. Mitsubishi has done a very good job with the stock turbo and identifing the existing shortcomings was not easy work.

I think the confusion about this turbo stared when all the hype about 441 whp without cams was being tossed about and myself and others were questioning that number

FIRST - FP never made a 441 whp claim

SECOND - The results I have seen thus far show me that the WR turbo will yield nice power gains over 5500 rpms over a stock turbo

THIRD - the results I have seen show me that 441 whp is not a resonable expectation with the FP turbo on a car without cams

Does that mean that the WR is not good ? No - its a very good turbo.

FP never made the 441 whp claim

To me a simple bolt in turbo which can get you a nice 25 - 30 easy whp gain up top is a very desireable improvement

I am now looking for one volunteer who would like free flash tuning and testing to compare a STOCK turbo to a FP turbo under CONTROLLED A - B testing conditions. Please PM me if you are interested.

I am confident that over a stock turbo the FP WR will show decent gains on the top end.

Thanks

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

This dyno sheet is impressive and shows the decent power up top with no loss in tq over stock

While the Essex Turbo dual ball bearing TME did make more low end tq - it also does cost a boat load more money - - and the top end power was the same

370 whp in 90 plus degree heat is very good

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/at...chmentid=70846

ForcedPerformance

iTrader: (6)

Very good points Al, I am glad to see your voice of reason speaking out on this subject. This turbocharger does a good job at what is was intended to do - give some extra power over what is possible with the stock turbo. It was never part of the design criteria for the unit to get into the 450whp range. The turbo was intended to approach 400whp on race gas, the 441whp from Switzer is about 10% outside of the intended power output for the unit. There always seem to be outlying data points for any data that is collected.

Your 370ish whp in 95+F heat is a very fair representation of what to expect from this turbocharger.

Robert Young

Event-Horizon

iTrader: (1)

Al, how do you feel this turbo would do with cams, like a Buschur Stage 4 setup?

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

See above dyno sheet - I see gains of 25 - 35 whp at 7,000 plus rpms easily obtainable

In the case of a stock turbo Stage 4 the whp would be about 340 in that heat - maybe 345

Also - the above sheet is held out to 7800 rpms while most stock turbo sheets we do end at 7,000 as the power is already falling off

I do not want people to get the idea that this WR is a bad turbo. Its a great turbo so long as you have resonable expectations of what to expect.

RoundPro

Hey,

Telling you... It's a hell of a turbo!

revhappy

Is the 25-30 WHP gain vs. the 03-04 or 05 stock turbos?

PunoEvo1337

iTrader: (1)

hey Al, what were the supporting mods with the WR on that dyno sheet you posted?

nefblkevo

iTrader: (4)

For crying out loud its about time, all this f...ing thread space waisted on people ragging on this turbo. ridiculous. Thank you AL for providing an objective response. All this crap about certain tuners not wanting this to be successful is ridiculous. Once again for me some one definately looking to upgrade with a bolt on instead of a $3000 + kit.....All I'm trying to figure out is Is it a better bang for the buck turbo than the 65 RS TME.

65 RS TME = $975
WR = $1,500

Is it worth an 85% premium over the TME (on 91)? i don't care about the '03 stocker, FP wouldn't have put out this turbo if it wasn't better than the stock '03 and/or stock '05.

fury656

iTrader: (6)

I still have confidence in what this unit can do, especially in the situation of someone like myself who intends only to make in the low 400whp range at best on a WR setup maxed out. That to me is more then respectable and would still yield an enjoyable car to drive. I expect to have the WR along with an HKS DLI-2, Intake, and an Alky/WI kit for the car in 2 weeks. My present setup yielded decent numbers with the mods listed below. If as expected I'm able to successfully maintain over 23psi to redline with this turbo on Alky/WI I think the car could produce very favorable numbers. I'd be willing to be the testbed if no one else steps up beforehand, I intend to keep the stock cams at this point so I'm not sure if that would be looked upon favorably, but I do think my setup with the additional parts over that i have in mind will make solid power with little to no comprimise and very little invested.

My car at present has the following:

3" RMR Turboback w/high flow cat & 2.75dp
HKS EVC V EZ2
Greddy V-SPL FMIC
Stock Airbox (K&N Drop-in)

The car made 275whp/310wtq with the boost tapering off under 19psi on the dyno (due to a major leak off the discharge pipe) so IMO the setup I have works pretty well, having recently fixed the leak issue and readjusted the EVC in the car maintains boost extremely well as it sits which made a huge difference in teh car, im sure future dyno numbers would reflect that.

Regardless of whether Al would accept my car as a testbed on this I'm still looking to help answer the question of what the WR really has to offer. Having ridden in a WR equipped EVO, I think a lot more then whats been seen to date.

inariv5573

iTrader: (3)

Yeah but how much gain can we expect under 7000 or even under 5500 rpm? When I drive regularly I very rarely go over 3500-4000 rpm. I'd like a turbo that improves streetable power throughout the rev range.

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

I can not quantify the difference between this and the TME at this point. I look forward to the opportunity to conduct further testing to flesh out the relative strengths and weaknesses of each unit.

A A - B - C - D testing of a Stock 2003, Stock 2004, TME and WR turbo all on the same car - same day with same boost and tuning paramters would be most informative

In the meantime, my main goal here is to seperate my critique of the misleading 441 whp dyno claims from an inteligent conversation about a promising and well made product.

Kee1pride

iTrader: (10)

when ever you're in austin, if you want to come to houston and check out the WB on my bone stock MR, you're welcome to XD

Soon2BEVO

iTrader: (41)

What gas was this 370whp using? Also, is this a Stg4 BR car? What boost!

Precision Dyno

iTrader: (5)

Al, Good thread as usual.
Second, Drew WRX,
Al was responding to a post where he is giving his personal preference.
He is trying to make "someone" happy rather than ignore the point.
He is reaching out to be impartial.
Please stop hounding him.
Thank you.