Injen Intake & Pipe
Aug 19, 2005, 06:06 AM
#31
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
that's the thing - one is NOT better than another. Replacing the corrugated pipe is not where the problems begin at all - coupled with a flash, its where the fun starts in the form of decreased spool time. I understand what you are saying about the dyno vs track times, but not everyone enjoys drag racing. I used to be in that camp as well, constantly taking the car to the track, but at the end of the day, I found it so unbearably boring, that I stopped going altogether and now hit maybe 1 event a year. That does not make the people who go and enjoy it wrong, it just makes it different.
As for the times and dyno's, in some instances you might be right, but I have a bevy of customer cars too deep to mention who's times and dyno's mirror one another....all depends what dyno you are talking about
As for the times and dyno's, in some instances you might be right, but I have a bevy of customer cars too deep to mention who's times and dyno's mirror one another....all depends what dyno you are talking about
I tend to trust MalibuJack on the MAF pipe issue, so we can agree to disagree there...
Aug 19, 2005, 02:34 PM
#32
well, waive your flag all you want, but you say you've never seen a dyno on an intake show a net 19whp gain. Neither have i, on the evo, but i've seen some darn close ones(15/16) on an rsx.
You're miscrediting the maf anamoly with a decrease in power.
You do seem to be on an "injen can't make power, and thats the way it is" trip though. Not everybody is gonna sit and dyno every part, every tune they do, for the internet to judge them.
They do what they want. You'll never see my evo on a drag strip, but you'll see it at the road courses. After install, it felt stronger, with no tune, now did i dyno it, and do purely scientific research? No, i drove it, and it pulled harder. (after i blew the bov off
)
We all understand what you're tryin to do, and justify your means as the lowest budget, go fast item. And thats wonderful. The MR heads and tails i got make 0 power, yet i bought them first. BIIIGGG whoop.
The injen intake is a nice, well crafted piece, i'd buy it again in a heartbeat for performance, looks, and quality. After seeing a BR intake that had the filter wrong or something ( whole intake pipe just bounced around in the engine bay. nothing to secure it ), that kinda frightened me, but later i was told it was a wrong part, or wrong filter, and it fit better with the replacement. so who knows.
You're miscrediting the maf anamoly with a decrease in power.
You do seem to be on an "injen can't make power, and thats the way it is" trip though. Not everybody is gonna sit and dyno every part, every tune they do, for the internet to judge them.
They do what they want. You'll never see my evo on a drag strip, but you'll see it at the road courses. After install, it felt stronger, with no tune, now did i dyno it, and do purely scientific research? No, i drove it, and it pulled harder. (after i blew the bov off
)We all understand what you're tryin to do, and justify your means as the lowest budget, go fast item. And thats wonderful. The MR heads and tails i got make 0 power, yet i bought them first. BIIIGGG whoop.
The injen intake is a nice, well crafted piece, i'd buy it again in a heartbeat for performance, looks, and quality. After seeing a BR intake that had the filter wrong or something ( whole intake pipe just bounced around in the engine bay. nothing to secure it ), that kinda frightened me, but later i was told it was a wrong part, or wrong filter, and it fit better with the replacement. so who knows.
Aug 19, 2005, 02:43 PM
#33
Originally Posted by WarmPepsi
You do seem to be on an "injen can't make power, and thats the way it is" trip though. Not everybody is gonna sit and dyno every part, every tune they do, for the internet to judge them.
They do what they want. You'll never see my evo on a drag strip, but you'll see it at the road courses. After install, it felt stronger, with no tune, now did i dyno it, and do purely scientific research? No, i drove it, and it pulled harder. (after i blew the bov off )
They do what they want. You'll never see my evo on a drag strip, but you'll see it at the road courses. After install, it felt stronger, with no tune, now did i dyno it, and do purely scientific research? No, i drove it, and it pulled harder. (after i blew the bov off
)The Injen is a nice looking set of parts that DO work, I know. I never said they don't make power...I said they don't make anymore power than a panel filter replacement when using the stock turbo, or at least not enough more to justify the additional $300, especially when an alky kit can be had for $400 while providing much, MUCH more horsepower...
Lastly, you do realize that the Evo comes from the factory with a severely rich tune above 5200rpm...especially above 6k rpm? When you install the Injen (or other similar intake), it automatically leans it out, which indirectly makes power just from leaning out some of that richness IN ADDITION TO providing more airflow (I'm not discounting that part or anything). The problem is that it throws off the MAF readings and causes problems until tuned. After being tuned, yeah it makes power, but if you just got tuned and kept the stock intake, there would be hardly any difference in total power gain...
Last edited by Warrtalon; Aug 19, 2005 at 02:45 PM.
Aug 19, 2005, 02:50 PM
#34
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Lastly, you do realize that the Evo comes from the factory with a severely rich tune above 5200rpm...especially above 6k rpm? When you install the Injen (or other similar intake), it automatically leans it out, which indirectly makes power just from leaning out some of that richness IN ADDITION TO providing more airlfow (I'm not discounting that part or anything). The problem is that it throws off the MAF readings and causes problems until tuned. After being tuned, yeah it makes power, but if you just got tuned and kept the stock intake, there would be hardly any difference in total power gain...
And yes, i realize it comes rich, you're saying it doesn't make any more power (untuned) than a panel filter.
I was running the K&N panel filter previously, when i installed the injen intake.
Also, power is power, i don't believe the 1/4 is a judge of power. I easily outpowered many in our rsx club, yet with a 50 and 75 shot, and the tires i selected... i couldn't launch it for my life ( didn't squeal at all when they broke traction, so there was no indication you were spinning). and we'd run similar times.
If you're judging power, judge it on a dyno, on the same, similar dyno at least.
edit: i'm saying you're probably a superior driver/launcher to your friend, and to me, as i'm at 15k, and i've never even launched the car.
Aug 19, 2005, 02:55 PM
#35
Originally Posted by WarmPepsi
outpowered many in our rsx club, yet with a 50 and 75 shot, and the tires i selected... i couldn't launch it for my life ( didn't squeal at all when they broke traction, so there was no indication you were spinning). and we'd run similar times.
If you're judging power, judge it on a dyno, on the same, similar dyno at least.
If you're judging power, judge it on a dyno, on the same, similar dyno at least.
I'd much rather run 12.2 at 111 in the 1/4 and dyno 282 than dyno at 350 and run 12.9 at 107.
edit: i'm saying you're probably a superior driver/launcher to your friend, and to me, as i'm at 15k, and i've never even launched the car.
Aug 19, 2005, 04:05 PM
#36
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Wow, are you serious? Even on the same dyno, that's not a proper way to judge power. Yeah, that tells you peak numbers for hp and tq between cars on the same dyno, but it doesn't tell you much about how well that power is used due to gearing and traction. If you think the dyno is a better judge of power than the 1/4, well, then I guess there's no use continuing this discussion.
I'd much rather run 12.2 at 111 in the 1/4 and dyno 282 than dyno at 350 and run 12.9 at 107.
Yes, that's likely, but a 10-15mph difference cannot be solely attributed to driver. Plus, I was HELPING him by telling him how to launch and where to shift, but the mph never went over 94...
I'd much rather run 12.2 at 111 in the 1/4 and dyno 282 than dyno at 350 and run 12.9 at 107.
Yes, that's likely, but a 10-15mph difference cannot be solely attributed to driver. Plus, I was HELPING him by telling him how to launch and where to shift, but the mph never went over 94...
you have a pedal, pushed to the floor. idiot proof.
you have another car, pedal pushed to floor. again, idiot proof.
Read the dynos (hopefully they're at least the same type, if not the same one, with the runs one after another ) and compare the peak numbers and the numbers under the bar, a/f's, etc.
Throwing in tire selection, driver skill, clutch condition, track condition, etc, etc, is the wrong way to compare "apples to apples". We're talking power here. Your superior launching skills don't mean crap on the street, or on a road course. The car that ran the 1/4 slower is gonna walk you every straight, and probably own you on every turn.
In case you missed the memo, the evo is a track car
Theres no denying that the evo can be made into a great beast in the 1/4, but thats not what it was made for. edit: Your thing about gearing and traction? if you're dynoing evo to evo, thats pretty simple (unless one's an mr, etc. ). Again, this topic is about making power, not putting it down in a split second to get off the line.
Last edited by WarmPepsi; Aug 19, 2005 at 04:08 PM.
Aug 19, 2005, 05:42 PM
#37
Originally Posted by WarmPepsi
Throwing in tire selection, driver skill, clutch condition, track condition, etc, etc, is the wrong way to compare "apples to apples". We're talking power here. Your superior launching skills don't mean crap on the street, or on a road course. The car that ran the 1/4 slower is gonna walk you every straight, and probably own you on every turn.
In case you missed the memo, the evo is a track car Theres no denying that the evo can be made into a great beast in the 1/4, but thats not what it was made for.
edit: Your thing about gearing and traction? if you're dynoing evo to evo, thats pretty simple (unless one's an mr, etc. ). Again, this topic is about making power, not putting it down in a split second to get off the line.
In case you missed the memo, the evo is a track car
Theres no denying that the evo can be made into a great beast in the 1/4, but thats not what it was made for. edit: Your thing about gearing and traction? if you're dynoing evo to evo, thats pretty simple (unless one's an mr, etc. ). Again, this topic is about making power, not putting it down in a split second to get off the line.
Here, go check these real quick:
http://members.***.net/capitaldrivin...05results.html
http://members.***.net/capitaldrivin...05results.html
I do far more autocrossing than I do drag racing. I will be doing my first actual road racing next month in late September, so I'll let you know how that goes, but I highly HIGHLY doubt that I'm going to get "walked in every straight and through every turn" by that many cars, if any. As I already mentioned, I go to the drag strip just to see where I am and what my mods have helped me accomplish in terms of power. I ALSO go to the dyno to attribute a number to that newfound power, but I BY NO MEANS rely on those dyno numbers like you prefer to do.
Also, how in the world can you say that launching skills are no help on the street or on a road course? My launching skills help me on the street all the time...wtf? They also help me in autocrossing...I come out of the hole faster than anyone, and that's not my own observation, but that of others who watch. Additionally, there's more to drag racing than launching. You say you haven't even gone to the drag strip nor have you launched your car, yet you presume to know what skills are involved and whether or not those skills help in other forms of racing? Shifting speed, accuracy, and rpm selection are VERY IMPORTANT. Go read a few threads in the drag racing forum for a few tips if you don't understant this simple point.
So, in conclusion, you say this is about "making power" and nothing else. Well, I hate to break it to you, but "making power" is NOT the most important thing. Anyone with half a clue about racing can tell you this. What matters most is making USE of power. Power has to be usable...power has to be sustainable...power has to be constant. These are not difficult to understand. An Injen intake can make power, but so can any intake...many of which cost far less and are much simpler to install (and uninstall). You're happy with your Injen, but you don't even know if it helped. You are using the butt dyno to make Internet claims, and you haven't even dyno'd nor tracked your car. Think about that...
Aug 19, 2005, 06:01 PM
#38
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Wow, that's truly laughable. The slower 1/4 car is going to walk me in every straight and probably own me in every turn??? Unbelievable...
Here, go check these real quick:
http://members.***.net/capitaldrivin...05results.html
http://members.***.net/capitaldrivin...05results.html
I do far more autocrossing than I do drag racing. I will be doing my first actual road racing next month in late September, so I'll let you know how that goes, but I highly HIGHLY doubt that I'm going to get "walked in every straight and through every turn" by that many cars, if any. As I already mentioned, I go to the drag strip just to see where I am and what my mods have helped me accomplish in terms of power. I ALSO go to the dyno to attribute a number to that newfound power, but I BY NO MEANS rely on those dyno numbers like you prefer to do.
Also, how in the world can you say that launching skills are no help on the street or on a road course? My launching skills help me on the street all the time...wtf? They also help me in autocrossing...I come out of the hole faster than anyone, and that's not my own observation, but that of others who watch. Additionally, there's more to drag racing than launching. You say you haven't even gone to the drag strip nor have you launched your car, yet you presume to know what skills are involved and whether or not those skills help in other forms of racing? Shifting speed, accuracy, and rpm selection are VERY IMPORTANT. Go read a few threads in the drag racing forum for a few tips if you don't understant this simple point.
So, in conclusion, you say this is about "making power" and nothing else. Well, I hate to break it to you, but "making power" is NOT the most important thing. Anyone with half a clue about racing can tell you this. What matters most is making USE of power. Power has to be usable...power has to be sustainable...power has to be constant. These are not difficult to understand. An Injen intake can make power, but so can any intake...many of which cost far less and are much simpler to install (and uninstall). You're happy with your Injen, but you don't even know if it helped. You are using the butt dyno to make Internet claims, and you haven't even dyno'd nor tracked your car. Think about that...
Here, go check these real quick:
http://members.***.net/capitaldrivin...05results.html
http://members.***.net/capitaldrivin...05results.html
I do far more autocrossing than I do drag racing. I will be doing my first actual road racing next month in late September, so I'll let you know how that goes, but I highly HIGHLY doubt that I'm going to get "walked in every straight and through every turn" by that many cars, if any. As I already mentioned, I go to the drag strip just to see where I am and what my mods have helped me accomplish in terms of power. I ALSO go to the dyno to attribute a number to that newfound power, but I BY NO MEANS rely on those dyno numbers like you prefer to do.
Also, how in the world can you say that launching skills are no help on the street or on a road course? My launching skills help me on the street all the time...wtf? They also help me in autocrossing...I come out of the hole faster than anyone, and that's not my own observation, but that of others who watch. Additionally, there's more to drag racing than launching. You say you haven't even gone to the drag strip nor have you launched your car, yet you presume to know what skills are involved and whether or not those skills help in other forms of racing? Shifting speed, accuracy, and rpm selection are VERY IMPORTANT. Go read a few threads in the drag racing forum for a few tips if you don't understant this simple point.
So, in conclusion, you say this is about "making power" and nothing else. Well, I hate to break it to you, but "making power" is NOT the most important thing. Anyone with half a clue about racing can tell you this. What matters most is making USE of power. Power has to be usable...power has to be sustainable...power has to be constant. These are not difficult to understand. An Injen intake can make power, but so can any intake...many of which cost far less and are much simpler to install (and uninstall). You're happy with your Injen, but you don't even know if it helped. You are using the butt dyno to make Internet claims, and you haven't even dyno'd nor tracked your car. Think about that...
Go do a road course. Start on the track, then tell me how many times you launch after entering. It's amazing how many people think the evo was made to launch at every green light and then wonder why they don't have a clutch anymore.
Power: you're claiming 282, and you're saying a person, in a similar car (evo) with 350 is NOT going to walk you on the straights? THATS unbelieveable.
With the evo, power is so easy to come by that it promotes cheating in the turns, you can simply power out of a slightly hot situation. (see above: with a 70 hp advantage, he'd walk you when powering out of a corner)
I've never launched or 1/4'd the evo. I've also never auto-x'd. It's been to 3 track days in the last 2 months, and it'll be to 3 more in the next month.
Shifting speed and rpm are very important, but what are you basing your power to gearing off of, if it isn't a dyno power sheet? hmm?
You're talking about making use of power. In a straight line, that's easy, don't spin. But on a track, with braking, turn-in, etc, it's more balance of the car. But if you're runnin with similar cars/mods/experience, and you think that the car with 350 hp isn't going to "USE" or "put down" more power, than your 282, i don't know what else to question.
Aug 19, 2005, 07:57 PM
#39
Evolved Member
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Northglenn, CO.
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My point is Injen kit does make more power, period! I dyno'd somewhere around 297awhp/tq with 3" turboback w/high flow cat, SAFCII, MBC and K&N filter drop in.
After Injen kit, I dyno'd 320awhp/tq. Keep in mind, tunning was tuned close to 11.7-12:1afr on both dyno times. Tell me, how the Injen kit didn't make more power when both tunes were pretty much maxed out on 91 oct.
I just found out the other day that I've been driving around with a leaking stock diverter. My car ran strong so I thought it wasn't leaking. Guess I was wrong. After JDM MR diverter, it just pulls harder and spools faster. And the best part, it runs like an N/A car when I turn my A/C on.
After Injen kit, I dyno'd 320awhp/tq. Keep in mind, tunning was tuned close to 11.7-12:1afr on both dyno times. Tell me, how the Injen kit didn't make more power when both tunes were pretty much maxed out on 91 oct.
I just found out the other day that I've been driving around with a leaking stock diverter. My car ran strong so I thought it wasn't leaking. Guess I was wrong. After JDM MR diverter, it just pulls harder and spools faster. And the best part, it runs like an N/A car when I turn my A/C on.
Mar 29, 2008, 01:08 PM
#41
go with buschur, better quality and better price I think. www.buschurracing.com
Apr 3, 2008, 02:49 PM
#44
Newbie
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey so..from what I saw doing my own researching along with reading this thread is, what Warrtalon is saying is that He see's little point for a $400 modification that doesnt add much power. Yes it does add power, but the power gains were due to the better AFR due to the richness at higher RPM's caused by stock Evo Tuning.
regardless..I personally like the Injen UICP & LICP piping because I've seen it on a friends evo and I like how the pipes are set up and where the BOV is placed. Also, instead of the $200 per set of UICP and LICP from AMS or Buschur I'd prefer the $370 for both.
So, my question is..where did you guys get your Injen Intake kits and for how much.
However..as much as I agree with warrtalon on this one, I'll probably still get the intake kit because I would like to have the faster spool up times on the turbo due to I dont plan on upgrading turbo's for a while and the most I can get out of it the better.
regardless..I personally like the Injen UICP & LICP piping because I've seen it on a friends evo and I like how the pipes are set up and where the BOV is placed. Also, instead of the $200 per set of UICP and LICP from AMS or Buschur I'd prefer the $370 for both.
So, my question is..where did you guys get your Injen Intake kits and for how much.
However..as much as I agree with warrtalon on this one, I'll probably still get the intake kit because I would like to have the faster spool up times on the turbo due to I dont plan on upgrading turbo's for a while and the most I can get out of it the better.
