dazz

If the case is true, will bring this to Mistu. attention change anything?
"You dimm some , you lose some"

iodine23

iTrader: (1)

Funny, now that Shiv has posted this, people are becoming HP whiners. Before the Evo was released I thought that most people around here were saying "HP doesn't matter as much since the Evo is the whole package with Brembo, Recaro, carbon fiber, aluminum and all that other good stuff."

Now everybody is desk dyno racing against SRT-4's and losing because of Shiv's results? You should not be worried about losing a red light race to a WRX or SRT-4, you should be worried about if Mitsubishi is falsely claiming 271HP. In fact I believe that's what Shiv mentioned early on in this thread before he released his results.

If you're worried about HP and going fast in a straight line you'd buy a Camaro or Mustang or something like that anyways,right?

nostatic

Isn't that suggesting a 31% drivetrain loss?? Seems wacky to me. According to Shiv's dyno, my 2001 S4 shows an 18% drivetrain loss. Shouldn't wheel HP for the EVO be closer to 215 or so??

91TB78

iTrader: (2)

Although this is a bit disappointing, the car is still amazing. It has been said before, but this car is amazing b/c it is a complete package. Not too mention if Shiv can get an extra 30 whp from basic timing changes then I feel this car can easily hit some serious numbers. Look at the JDM and EDM numbers with the same engine!

iodine23, actually I would worry about a stoplight race against an SRT-4. It was designed to go fast in a straight line. Not that it doesn't do decently well in corners, but it has 0 camber..the tires are even with the pavement. The SRT-4 is a great little car and would be an EXCELLENT alternative to those on here wishing to go really fast in a straight line. The Evo, while quick and fast, is more about handling, braking, etc.

BADWRX

iTrader: (1)

Very true. The reason that people are *****ing is because of the claimed HP #'s. It is truly sad. They should just tell the truth, but MMC is not famous for that anyway, so we shouldn't be suprised! lol

The only thing that you really hear me *****ing about is the lack of the fancy drivetrain toys, like ayc/acd/6spd/front lsd. These are the ONLY thing that this car is missing to make it the savior, in my opinion.

I am moving back to Japan next year. I am going to try to pick up a real evolution 8 (Used). Then I will be happy!

Andy

Alfriedesq

iTrader: (6)

You can NOT base any assumptions on Shiv's dyno - it reads funny

Once we have real "dyno jet" dyno numbers - then we will know

iodine23

iTrader: (1)

Oh I guess I didn't word what I was saying properly, I can see how you can mistake my words for that. I wasn't saying "don't worry, it's an Evo, it can take that silly WRX or SRT-4 no problem!" I agree with what you say, the SRT-4 will be a thorn in that Evo's side at a red light race.

I was just pointing out that now that a dyno result has come out, all the desktop dyno jockeys have started racing the Evo against other cars and getting worried about winning or losing based solely on this one result. Really the point of the result may be that Mitsu misquoted performance, and that's much worse than losing some silly street race.

suave3747

It would be absolutely moronic for Mitsu to misquote figures for this car. They know very well that a fairly large percentage of the people that buy these cars are going to tune the 4G63, and any good tuner uses a dyno. They had to realize that a misquote would come out in a matter of weeks if there was one. They even say in the brochure to "go forth and modify," so they'd have to be mildly retarded to over-rate HP when probably 50% of the people that buy these cars will make at least one performance mod at some point, and, in the process, check the figures on a dyno.

-LD

it may "read funny" (whatever that means)...but it "reads funny" the same for the WRX, the Evo VII, and the USDM Evo

those are the numbers to compare, not the numbers is claiming, not the numbers of another dyno...compare car to car on the same dyno as Vishnu has done

clearly there is less HP in the USDM Evo than the JDM Evo VII Vishnu tested...and the wheel HP number between the USDM Evo and WRX is only 20 HP on vishnu's dyno

edit: also, don't assume is misquoting HP numbers...HP is really just a made up system of measurement and the dyno may very well show 271 crank HP

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

If funny=realistic, then yes, it is funny as heck

Seriously though, the Dynojet was never intended to be an all-wheel drive dyno. It is nothing more than two 2 wheel drive dynos working independantly of each other. As a result, there is no control over front and rear wheel speed during a dyno pull. The roller which is smaller and lighter (usually the front which is based off the little Dynojet Model 224) will spin earlier and faster than the rear (which is usually based of off the big Model 248). As a result, the two wheels spin at different speeds (!) until the poor little differential takes up the slack. Not only does not simulate anything close to real-world conditions, it is hazardous to differential longevity. This is why it is nearly impossible to dyno a Porsche 911 turbo, AWD Volvo, or any type of AWD system that uses automatically engaging clutch-type diffs to control fore-aft torque distribution.

The Dynojet is a nice, inexpensive, repeatable two-wheel drive dyno. But as an all-wheel drive dyno, it falls very short on many fronts. But they do give big numbers so some people will like it. On my recent tuning trip (to NJ), our Stage 2 cars were putting 290-300 wheel hp to ground measured on an AWD Dynojet. On our dyno, they put down 250-255 wheel hp.

Just my 2c,
Shiv
www.vishnutuning.com

BobbyD

al stop spewing crap all over these boards. his dyno does not read funny.. dynojet = inflated #'s.. if you want an ego boost fine.. go for it.. and im having a hard time seeing what makes dynojet numbers more "real" as you put it than dyno dynamic #'s..
--bobby
btw, in your reponse do not post your whp #.. no one cares.. you flaunt it around on every board you go to..

superz

iTrader: (7)

I know alot of people will bathmouth me for saying this but I speak from a proffesional standpoint.
You cannot be that naive and beleive everything that a "business" is posting. We should never, ever let any shop guide you by the hand in tuning your car-you will get raped. They are in the business of making money ! That's the bottom line. I worked in a performance shop before and remember all the **** screwing that went on there (thAT's the reason I left). There is no such thing as a shop that is friendly with you, they are so because they need you to spend money.
Dynos can be altered easier than altering an ECU. Go figure that in the morning your car drives in with 200 whp, and by the afternoon it gained 40-50hp. After you spent $1500 between an exhaust and intake.
Not all shops are this way but its very difficult to beleive everything you see and hear. Any shop with the right "potion" to fix your hp deficit should be very well investigated.
Just my opinion as a proffesional. (still waiting for this damn EVO -march 21)

Silencer

iTrader: (4)

A front wheel drive vs. an all wheel drive at a drag race on street tires with similiar hp, mmmmm. Correct me if I'm wrong, 0-60 Mitsu (under 5) SRT-4 (5 1/2). I bought an EVO over the SRT-4 for this reason. No threat!

josh

hey superz

i hear your arguement, but shiv is pretty well respected, and knows his poopoo. i have had the pleasure of working with shiv on a few of my subarus, and although he runs a business, it is all about knowledge and research for him. the business side is secondary.

i know its hard to read through that on the internet. but, why would shiv do this to every car he had dynoed, including S4's (one of which was mine) that he doesn't sell parts for? and probably never will sell parts for (i havent seen shiv in a few months, so maybe he is ).

i would be more excited about the fact that with mild tuning he got a good increase in hp. no where here have i seen him trying to sell any product. just getting a baseline on hp for these awesome new cars.

josh

91TB78

iTrader: (2)

The SRT-4 probably isn't a HUGE threat to an Evo for a stop light war, but it will give it a run for its money big time. Although awd is great, how many do you think you'll want to drop the cluth on your Evo?? For me personally I don't think I can afford to do that. First the clutch, then the gears. It gets pretty expensive trying to boost your pride.

Shiv,
At what point (mileage wise) did you guys initially dyno the WRX in stock form? The reason I ask is maybe the Evo needs more miles to loosen it up.

Additionally, the Evo has a mechanical diff to run through instead of the viscous in the WRX, plus the Evo has the viscous center diff.

I still feel that those that bought the car for just straight line acceleration probably spent too much for what they really want. I'm not saying you don't deserve it or that the Evo is not a good acceleration tool, but it is so much more than that.