Would "the mothership" like to respond to all these 180awhp threads??
Mar 13, 2003, 12:05 PM
#91
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Originally posted by ShapeGSX
And that doesn't change the fact that an Evo will blow a WRX into the weeds. 7mph in the 1/4 is nothing to sneeze at, and it isn't something that 20hp is going to get you when your car weighs 150lbs more than your competition.
Get the car dynoed with better gas, and with more miles before jumping to the conclusions that you seem to have already jumped to.
And that doesn't change the fact that an Evo will blow a WRX into the weeds. 7mph in the 1/4 is nothing to sneeze at, and it isn't something that 20hp is going to get you when your car weighs 150lbs more than your competition.
Get the car dynoed with better gas, and with more miles before jumping to the conclusions that you seem to have already jumped to.
Mar 13, 2003, 12:31 PM
#92
Originally posted by hornet
Someone said it in another thread "people only seem to remember the negative". And it seems to be heading that way when other forums start bashing this car that obviously runs with the best when comparing stock to stock regardless of what that one Dyno says.
Someone said it in another thread "people only seem to remember the negative". And it seems to be heading that way when other forums start bashing this car that obviously runs with the best when comparing stock to stock regardless of what that one Dyno says.
Quit fighting and let the guy tune his car. I bet we'll see mid 12 second very stock-like Evos really soon from Shiv (and other tuners) as well.
Mar 13, 2003, 12:36 PM
#93
Originally posted by Noize
Quit fighting and let the guy tune his car. I bet we'll see mid 12 second very stock-like Evos really soon from Shiv (and other tuners) as well.
Quit fighting and let the guy tune his car. I bet we'll see mid 12 second very stock-like Evos really soon from Shiv (and other tuners) as well.
Ok, that was mean. But you have to know what you are doing, and Shiv's first post about the Evo dyno didn't really inspire confidence, if you know what I mean.
Mar 13, 2003, 12:36 PM
#94
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There is little doubt that the car stock will run mid 13s in stock form. Our WRXs running 200 wheel hp have been running low 13s and our WRXs running 250 wheel hp have been running mid to high 12s. And that's with taller gearing and far slower boost response.
We use a different dyno than most and one needs to adjust their frame of mind when comparing our wheel hp to 1/4 mile performance. I've tried to make this point clear from the start but appearantly some folks have a harder time understanding that than others.
As for 10 and 11 second drag cars, I have tuned a few of them under contract. I'm not at liberty to say but if you ask around, you'll probably find out. Unfortunately, they are mostly Hondas so I'm not too proud of it
As for our experience tuning DSMs, it's minimal. My experience and field of interest is in engine management primarily. If I see another DSM come to our dyno with an AFC and EBC, I'm going to puke
Cheers,
shiv
We use a different dyno than most and one needs to adjust their frame of mind when comparing our wheel hp to 1/4 mile performance. I've tried to make this point clear from the start but appearantly some folks have a harder time understanding that than others.
As for 10 and 11 second drag cars, I have tuned a few of them under contract. I'm not at liberty to say but if you ask around, you'll probably find out. Unfortunately, they are mostly Hondas so I'm not too proud of it
As for our experience tuning DSMs, it's minimal. My experience and field of interest is in engine management primarily. If I see another DSM come to our dyno with an AFC and EBC, I'm going to puke
Cheers,
shiv
Last edited by shiv@vishnu; Mar 13, 2003 at 12:42 PM.
Mar 13, 2003, 12:59 PM
#96
Originally posted by shiv@vishnu
As for our experience tuning DSMs, it's minimal. My experience and field of interest is in engine management primarily. If I see another DSM come to our dyno with an AFC and EBC, I'm going to puke
As for our experience tuning DSMs, it's minimal. My experience and field of interest is in engine management primarily. If I see another DSM come to our dyno with an AFC and EBC, I'm going to puke
DSM people use piggybacks because they work very well. If you can run 11s or 10s on a stock ECU, why upgrade?
Personally, though, I use DSMLink. www.dsmlink.com Forget having someone burn you a chip. Tune it yourself.
Mar 13, 2003, 01:11 PM
#97
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Originally posted by ShapeGSX
Tune it yourself.
Tune it yourself.
I mean jeez I’m only running 117 traps in a full weight car on the stock ecu and a safc.
Mar 13, 2003, 01:20 PM
#98
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I think the Evolution might be a little more complex than a AFC......
[redneck] don't give me that fancy lighted AFC, I want the antique one, WITH A KNOB!!! I'll stop using an AFC, WHEN YOU PRY IT OUT OF MY COLD, DEAD HAND!!!!! [/redneck]
[redneck] don't give me that fancy lighted AFC, I want the antique one, WITH A KNOB!!! I'll stop using an AFC, WHEN YOU PRY IT OUT OF MY COLD, DEAD HAND!!!!! [/redneck]
Mar 13, 2003, 01:22 PM
#99
Originally posted by rdrkt
No that would require a professional charging $1000 bucks a head I mean jeez I’m only running 117 traps in a full weight car on the stock ecu and a safc.
No that would require a professional charging $1000 bucks a head
I mean jeez I’m only running 117 traps in a full weight car on the stock ecu and a safc.
Where did you get this $1000 tuning fee idea from?
Most of the cost for the WRX upgrades was because it comes with hardware (exhaust components, ECU piggyback/replacement, pulleys, range colder plugs, etc).
Now lets see a US Spec Evo run 10s on a totally stock ECU. We'll probably be waiting a LONG TIME......... Read: Never.
Last edited by Noize; Mar 13, 2003 at 01:27 PM.
Mar 13, 2003, 01:30 PM
#100
Originally posted by GRoceryTurbo
I think the Evolution might be a little more complex than a AFC......
[redneck] don't give me that fancy lighted AFC, I want the antique one, WITH A KNOB!!! I'll stop using an AFC, WHEN YOU PRY IT OUT OF MY COLD, DEAD HAND!!!!! [/redneck]
I think the Evolution might be a little more complex than a AFC......
[redneck] don't give me that fancy lighted AFC, I want the antique one, WITH A KNOB!!! I'll stop using an AFC, WHEN YOU PRY IT OUT OF MY COLD, DEAD HAND!!!!! [/redneck]
Have any of you ever actually used an AFC? The concepts it uses apply pretty much to any car with the right air metering type. All it does is give you a very flexible way to lower or raise the amount of air that the ECU sees entering the engine. Are there side-affects? Yes, but all the side-affects I saw were beneficial in terms of power delivery. I used one for a few seasons, and I was very successful with it.
I prefer to use DSMLink, now (which is still based on the stock ECU, just reprogrammed). But the AFC worked very well for me.
Mar 13, 2003, 01:37 PM
#101
Originally posted by ShapeGSX
You are right, the Evo is more complex than an AFC. The Evo is a car. An AFC is just a small microprocessor based tuning tool.
Have any of you ever actually used an AFC? The concepts it uses apply pretty much to any car with the right air metering type. All it does is give you a very flexible way to lower or raise the amount of air that the ECU sees entering the engine. Are there side-affects? Yes, but all the side-affects I saw were beneficial in terms of power delivery. I used one for a few seasons, and I was very successful with it.
I prefer to use DSMLink, now (which is still based on the stock ECU, just reprogrammed). But the AFC worked very well for me.
You are right, the Evo is more complex than an AFC. The Evo is a car. An AFC is just a small microprocessor based tuning tool.
Have any of you ever actually used an AFC? The concepts it uses apply pretty much to any car with the right air metering type. All it does is give you a very flexible way to lower or raise the amount of air that the ECU sees entering the engine. Are there side-affects? Yes, but all the side-affects I saw were beneficial in terms of power delivery. I used one for a few seasons, and I was very successful with it.
I prefer to use DSMLink, now (which is still based on the stock ECU, just reprogrammed). But the AFC worked very well for me.
Mar 13, 2003, 01:41 PM
#102
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Originally posted by ShapeGSX
Have any of you ever actually used an AFC?
I prefer to use DSMLink, now (which is still based on the stock ECU, just reprogrammed). But the AFC worked very well for me.
Have any of you ever actually used an AFC?
I prefer to use DSMLink, now (which is still based on the stock ECU, just reprogrammed). But the AFC worked very well for me.
why did you make the switch to a more complicated ECU system, is your car making more power than with the AFC?
Mar 13, 2003, 01:43 PM
#103
Uhhh, my car and every DSM has the ability to adjust timing on the fly. And the AFC works just fine.
What makes you think that the Evo's ECU is more advanced than the DSM ECU in ways that will make it difficult to tune?
People said the same things when the 2G DSMs came out. But Mitsubishi didn't really change a whole lot.
The basic air metering system of the Evo is the same. That is what gives DSMs so much flexibility.
What makes you think that the Evo's ECU is more advanced than the DSM ECU in ways that will make it difficult to tune?
People said the same things when the 2G DSMs came out. But Mitsubishi didn't really change a whole lot.
The basic air metering system of the Evo is the same. That is what gives DSMs so much flexibility.
Mar 13, 2003, 01:48 PM
#104
Originally posted by GRoceryTurbo
yes, unfortunately I had one on my Civic.
why did you make the switch to a more complicated ECU system, is your car making more power than with the AFC?
yes, unfortunately I had one on my Civic.
why did you make the switch to a more complicated ECU system, is your car making more power than with the AFC?
I switched because I wanted to be able to datalog knock. No doubt, DSMLink does offer me more flexibility over an AFC. It also allows me to adjust timing, which the AFC does not address (but other piggybacks do).
I ran 12.54 with a best mph of 110.8mph with my AFC. (Video: http://www.offsitens.com/vids/josh1254run.wmv ) No timing control at all.
I have since run a 12.52@112mph with DSMLink with the same exact setup. That was a bit of a freak pass, too.
Not really an appreciable difference.
Mar 13, 2003, 02:21 PM
#105
Originally posted by ShapeGSX
Uhhh, my car and every DSM has the ability to adjust timing on the fly. And the AFC works just fine.
What makes you think that the Evo's ECU is more advanced than the DSM ECU in ways that will make it difficult to tune?
People said the same things when the 2G DSMs came out. But Mitsubishi didn't really change a whole lot.
The basic air metering system of the Evo is the same. That is what gives DSMs so much flexibility.
Uhhh, my car and every DSM has the ability to adjust timing on the fly. And the AFC works just fine.
What makes you think that the Evo's ECU is more advanced than the DSM ECU in ways that will make it difficult to tune?
People said the same things when the 2G DSMs came out. But Mitsubishi didn't really change a whole lot.
The basic air metering system of the Evo is the same. That is what gives DSMs so much flexibility.
Without popping a US Lancer ECU open or being the guinea pig to try an SAFC on your new $30,000 car, we cannot procure real world results just yet. Unfortunately, since neither of us have access to a US Evo ECU at this very minute, we can't say either way for sure. Maybe Mitsubishi will follow old trends, and this ECU will be a snap to manipulate. I'm sure not holding my breath, though. If you prove me wrong, I'll clap my hands for all the new Evo drivers out there.
I just really doubt that Shiv would sit on the data as long as he has if an SAFC would safely and repeatedly make reliable power to your car.
Dave Buschur recently tried to put a 16G on a WRX with factory injectors, pump, and ECU. It didn't blow up (that we know of), but it didn't run very well, either. Although the Evo's hardware is MUCH more akin to the DSMs, its not always safe to assume a new dog can do all the old dog's tricks.
Hunker down and wait a couple days, then we can stop speculating...