High HP road track evo’s?
Oct 4, 2005, 08:53 AM
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High HP road track evo’s?
I would like some input on how to build a high HP road race evo (500+whp). Is it possible to put a big turbo (stroker / GT35) in an evo and tune it so it makes power/boost smoothly for road track racing? I understand big turbo’s are not ideal for road track racing because of sudden boost. But I’m guessing a good unorthodox tune using AEM ems could make the boost build slowly and hit full around redline. I guess I am thinking outside the box and trying to find a way to make boost feel and function like displacement.
AMS told me to use the GT3071R Kit but I want to do something different and really take advantage of the AWD and balance the EVO has. I only really see 6-700hp evo’s road racing in England.
Anyone using a big turbo’s for track days?
AMS told me to use the GT3071R Kit but I want to do something different and really take advantage of the AWD and balance the EVO has. I only really see 6-700hp evo’s road racing in England.
Anyone using a big turbo’s for track days?
Oct 4, 2005, 01:30 PM
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Tracking a car is hell on every component of the car. If you are tracking your Evo, you want an engine and drivetain that is strong and reliable. Most of the stock drivetrain parts will not handle 400+hp.
Generally, horsepower and reliability are inversely proportional. Increasing boost and horsepower usually decreases reliability. Of course if you build up the engine and drivetrain, you will increase the overall reliability. Stick with the GT3071. If you want more hp than the 2.0 with the GT3071R can provide, get a 2.2L Stroker; you get higher redline over stock and/or a 2.3/.4 kit not to mention improved reliability if it is assembled well with strong parts by a good shop.
The reliability of your motor and the trackability of the car would be severly compromised if you went with the GT35R imo. With the amount of lag the GT35r has, you would be struggling to pull out of corners at low rpms. Plus the GT35 hits hard, you would be washing out of turns from all the wheel spin generated. You want something that has smooth power delivery.
There are guys i know who have heat management issues on the track with bone stock Evos. The more horsepower generated, the more heat produced. Whatever you decide to do, a cooling system overhaul should be a part of your plan.
Just because the Evo is AWD and balanced from the factory doesn't mean it's impossible to upset that balance. Bozz speed had an Evo VI with a HKS GT3240 making 600 awhp. The lag was huge, the car was a b!tch to handle, and they had to stop it every 2 laps because everything would over heat. Needless to say that would be a worthless full time track car as far as reliablility, driveability, with a less than trackable power band. Also remember the GT35r is an even bigger turbo than the GT3240. bigger turbo more lag
IMO and i'm sure most track racers will agree with me, a properly tuned suspension and some weight management will do more for you than huge horsepower numbers especially when that horsepower comes at the cost of driveability and reliability. Just look at the Lotus Elise, bad example to some, but its light, has an amazing, stiff suspension set up, but has only ~190hp crank yet with a competent driver can spank competent drivers in high end sports cars!
Take a note from WRC cars. WRC is hell for cars. The only sort of racing that is tougher on cars imo is Dakar rally because its nonstop racing in blistering heat at high speeds for days. In WRC, they run meth/water injection but do not adjust the AFR to account for it. this helps cool the intake charge and engine keeping the engine from knocking and/or grenading under high heat, high stress conditions. plus if you have fuel slosh or suddenly lose your alc/water injection, you wont run dangerously lean and risk engine damage. The engines are built strong and could handle more boost but for reliability sake they run less boost.
IMO build your block like you are running the GT35R... strong. But run the GT3071S. Really build and upgrade your fuel and cooling systems. Run low AFRs no more than 11.2. The first thing i would do before paying money to upgrade the engine is fully upgrade the suspension. You would be amazed at what tweaking the suspension/ tire setup can do to a car.
Generally, horsepower and reliability are inversely proportional. Increasing boost and horsepower usually decreases reliability. Of course if you build up the engine and drivetrain, you will increase the overall reliability. Stick with the GT3071. If you want more hp than the 2.0 with the GT3071R can provide, get a 2.2L Stroker; you get higher redline over stock and/or a 2.3/.4 kit not to mention improved reliability if it is assembled well with strong parts by a good shop.
The reliability of your motor and the trackability of the car would be severly compromised if you went with the GT35R imo. With the amount of lag the GT35r has, you would be struggling to pull out of corners at low rpms. Plus the GT35 hits hard, you would be washing out of turns from all the wheel spin generated. You want something that has smooth power delivery.
There are guys i know who have heat management issues on the track with bone stock Evos. The more horsepower generated, the more heat produced. Whatever you decide to do, a cooling system overhaul should be a part of your plan.
Just because the Evo is AWD and balanced from the factory doesn't mean it's impossible to upset that balance. Bozz speed had an Evo VI with a HKS GT3240 making 600 awhp. The lag was huge, the car was a b!tch to handle, and they had to stop it every 2 laps because everything would over heat. Needless to say that would be a worthless full time track car as far as reliablility, driveability, with a less than trackable power band. Also remember the GT35r is an even bigger turbo than the GT3240. bigger turbo more lag
IMO and i'm sure most track racers will agree with me, a properly tuned suspension and some weight management will do more for you than huge horsepower numbers especially when that horsepower comes at the cost of driveability and reliability. Just look at the Lotus Elise, bad example to some, but its light, has an amazing, stiff suspension set up, but has only ~190hp crank yet with a competent driver can spank competent drivers in high end sports cars!
Take a note from WRC cars. WRC is hell for cars. The only sort of racing that is tougher on cars imo is Dakar rally because its nonstop racing in blistering heat at high speeds for days. In WRC, they run meth/water injection but do not adjust the AFR to account for it. this helps cool the intake charge and engine keeping the engine from knocking and/or grenading under high heat, high stress conditions. plus if you have fuel slosh or suddenly lose your alc/water injection, you wont run dangerously lean and risk engine damage. The engines are built strong and could handle more boost but for reliability sake they run less boost.
IMO build your block like you are running the GT35R... strong. But run the GT3071S. Really build and upgrade your fuel and cooling systems. Run low AFRs no more than 11.2. The first thing i would do before paying money to upgrade the engine is fully upgrade the suspension. You would be amazed at what tweaking the suspension/ tire setup can do to a car.
Oct 4, 2005, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by AWDrift07
Tracking a car is hell on every component of the car. If you are tracking your Evo, you want an engine and drivetain that is strong and reliable. Most of the stock drivetrain parts will not handle 400+hp.
Generally, horsepower and reliability are inversely proportional. Increasing boost and horsepower usually decreases reliability. Of course if you build up the engine and drivetrain, you will increase the overall reliability. Stick with the GT3071. If you want more hp than the 2.0 with the GT3071R can provide, get a 2.2L Stroker; you get higher redline over stock and/or a 2.3/.4 kit not to mention improved reliability if it is assembled well with strong parts by a good shop.
The reliability of your motor and the trackability of the car would be severly compromised if you went with the GT35R imo. With the amount of lag the GT35r has, you would be struggling to pull out of corners at low rpms. Plus the GT35 hits hard, you would be washing out of turns from all the wheel spin generated. You want something that has smooth power delivery.
There are guys i know who have heat management issues on the track with bone stock Evos. The more horsepower generated, the more heat produced. Whatever you decide to do, a cooling system overhaul should be a part of your plan.
Just because the Evo is AWD and balanced from the factory doesn't mean it's impossible to upset that balance. Bozz speed had an Evo VI with a HKS GT3240 making 600 awhp. The lag was huge, the car was a b!tch to handle, and they had to stop it every 2 laps because everything would over heat. Needless to say that would be a worthless full time track car as far as reliablility, driveability, with a less than trackable power band. Also remember the GT35r is an even bigger turbo than the GT3240. bigger turbo more lag
IMO and i'm sure most track racers will agree with me, a properly tuned suspension and some weight management will do more for you than huge horsepower numbers especially when that horsepower comes at the cost of driveability and reliability. Just look at the Lotus Elise, bad example to some, but its light, has an amazing, stiff suspension set up, but has only ~190hp crank yet with a competent driver can spank competent drivers in high end sports cars!
Take a note from WRC cars. WRC is hell for cars. The only sort of racing that is tougher on cars imo is Dakar rally because its nonstop racing in blistering heat at high speeds for days. In WRC, they run meth/water injection but do not adjust the AFR to account for it. this helps cool the intake charge and engine keeping the engine from knocking and/or grenading under high heat, high stress conditions. plus if you have fuel slosh or suddenly lose your alc/water injection, you wont run dangerously lean and risk engine damage. The engines are built strong and could handle more boost but for reliability sake they run less boost.
IMO build your block like you are running the GT35R... strong. But run the GT3071S. Really build and upgrade your fuel and cooling systems. Run low AFRs no more than 11.2. The first thing i would do before paying money to upgrade the engine is fully upgrade the suspension. You would be amazed at what tweaking the suspension/ tire setup can do to a car.
Generally, horsepower and reliability are inversely proportional. Increasing boost and horsepower usually decreases reliability. Of course if you build up the engine and drivetrain, you will increase the overall reliability. Stick with the GT3071. If you want more hp than the 2.0 with the GT3071R can provide, get a 2.2L Stroker; you get higher redline over stock and/or a 2.3/.4 kit not to mention improved reliability if it is assembled well with strong parts by a good shop.
The reliability of your motor and the trackability of the car would be severly compromised if you went with the GT35R imo. With the amount of lag the GT35r has, you would be struggling to pull out of corners at low rpms. Plus the GT35 hits hard, you would be washing out of turns from all the wheel spin generated. You want something that has smooth power delivery.
There are guys i know who have heat management issues on the track with bone stock Evos. The more horsepower generated, the more heat produced. Whatever you decide to do, a cooling system overhaul should be a part of your plan.
Just because the Evo is AWD and balanced from the factory doesn't mean it's impossible to upset that balance. Bozz speed had an Evo VI with a HKS GT3240 making 600 awhp. The lag was huge, the car was a b!tch to handle, and they had to stop it every 2 laps because everything would over heat. Needless to say that would be a worthless full time track car as far as reliablility, driveability, with a less than trackable power band. Also remember the GT35r is an even bigger turbo than the GT3240. bigger turbo more lag
IMO and i'm sure most track racers will agree with me, a properly tuned suspension and some weight management will do more for you than huge horsepower numbers especially when that horsepower comes at the cost of driveability and reliability. Just look at the Lotus Elise, bad example to some, but its light, has an amazing, stiff suspension set up, but has only ~190hp crank yet with a competent driver can spank competent drivers in high end sports cars!
Take a note from WRC cars. WRC is hell for cars. The only sort of racing that is tougher on cars imo is Dakar rally because its nonstop racing in blistering heat at high speeds for days. In WRC, they run meth/water injection but do not adjust the AFR to account for it. this helps cool the intake charge and engine keeping the engine from knocking and/or grenading under high heat, high stress conditions. plus if you have fuel slosh or suddenly lose your alc/water injection, you wont run dangerously lean and risk engine damage. The engines are built strong and could handle more boost but for reliability sake they run less boost.
IMO build your block like you are running the GT35R... strong. But run the GT3071S. Really build and upgrade your fuel and cooling systems. Run low AFRs no more than 11.2. The first thing i would do before paying money to upgrade the engine is fully upgrade the suspension. You would be amazed at what tweaking the suspension/ tire setup can do to a car.
Thanks for all the great info, I know exactly what you mean about suspension and handeling, I own a Lotus Elise and Ultima GTR. I had Ohlins coilovers and I run Toyo RA-1 / hoosiers. I'm in the process of getting Motons or DMS 50's. I want this car to beat my Ultima GTR and I feel it has the ability, but just doesnt cut it on the faster high HP tracks.
I'm dying to know what HP #'s that guy Kent Jordan is running out in CA. He pulls with vipers and seems to have a very reliable car on the track. By watching his videos, he doesnt even break the wheels loose at full throttle in the turns. His setup with a few extra HP would be insane.
Oct 4, 2005, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kingkyle
I'm dying to know what HP #'s that guy Kent Jordan is running out in CA. He pulls with vipers and seems to have a very reliable car on the track. By watching his videos, he doesnt even break the wheels loose at full throttle in the turns. His setup with a few extra HP would be insane.
Oct 4, 2005, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by kingkyle
I'm dying to know what HP #'s that guy Kent Jordan is running out in CA. He pulls with vipers and seems to have a very reliable car on the track. By watching his videos, he doesnt even break the wheels loose at full throttle in the turns. His setup with a few extra HP would be insane.
Chassis is key, since I went to our latest Moton set-up, qualifying and race lap records at Sears Point, then pole position and a new race lap record at Laguna Seca over the Vipers, and now I can't see my desk cause it is covered with trophies and checkered flags. The video you are talking about is still when we were running our JIC set-up, you would not believe the traction our car has now with the Motons and 305 Hoosiers.
Proper turbo selection for your driving experience level and what specific race course you are running will make a huge difference in ones ability to kick Viper a$$.
Oct 4, 2005, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by john@rre
We won 3 more at Laguna Seca this past weekend, 11 SCCA races in a row and our car has finished every event it has started over the past 18 months.
Chassis is key, since I went to our latest Moton set-up, qualifying and race lap records at Sears Point, then pole position and a new race lap record at Laguna Seca over the Vipers, and now I can't see my desk cause it is covered with trophies and checkered flags. The video you are talking about is still when we were running our JIC set-up, you would not believe the traction our car has now with the Motons and 305 Hoosiers.
Proper turbo selection for your driving experience level and what specific race course you are running will make a huge difference in ones ability to kick Viper a$$.
Chassis is key, since I went to our latest Moton set-up, qualifying and race lap records at Sears Point, then pole position and a new race lap record at Laguna Seca over the Vipers, and now I can't see my desk cause it is covered with trophies and checkered flags. The video you are talking about is still when we were running our JIC set-up, you would not believe the traction our car has now with the Motons and 305 Hoosiers.
Proper turbo selection for your driving experience level and what specific race course you are running will make a huge difference in ones ability to kick Viper a$$.
