Hallman-vs-Forge
Oct 27, 2005, 09:42 AM
#16
Originally Posted by Aux.
So when driving on an everyday road doing whatever it is you do to be able to mod your car so well (druglord) what would you run your boost at and why ? Oh, and do you have a turbo upgrade ??
As has been said maybe 957,324 times, 20-21psi is recommended on pump gas. This is what I run daily. Anymore than that, and I incur knock, which pulls timing. Any less, and I'm just leaving power on the table. I have spent less than $1k on my mods, so don't think that I have spent a lot of money in my pursuit of 11s.
Turbo upgrade? Hah, hell no.
Oct 27, 2005, 09:43 AM
#17
Hey mike,
Just one of the men i lwas looking to talk to. I was asking earlier since Hallman and Forge are so reputable in the aftermarket MBC world which would be better. I am modding my engine for the first time and have no other mods so was looking to start out with a good product, and have seen alot about the two. So tell me Mike whats so good about the Forge compared to the Hallman ? Sell me .
Just one of the men i lwas looking to talk to. I was asking earlier since Hallman and Forge are so reputable in the aftermarket MBC world which would be better. I am modding my engine for the first time and have no other mods so was looking to start out with a good product, and have seen alot about the two. So tell me Mike whats so good about the Forge compared to the Hallman ? Sell me .
Oct 27, 2005, 09:52 AM
#19
So, you don't have a turbo upgrade but ou do adjust your turbo on race gas. I understand about the knocking ( i read a whole paper on it that someone with to much time wrote) and understand the timing thing. So i would imagine that you lower your boost on the track to prevent from knocking ( do you have a knock link or do you just go by ear ? ). Me personally i would leave my MBC on 20-21 PSI also because all i do is street driving on 91 pump gas. Ohhhh and War don't be so modest we know your part of the 10 sec. club ! 
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Are you asking me these questions?
As has been said maybe 957,324 times, 20-21psi is recommended on pump gas. This is what I run daily. Anymore than that, and I incur knock, which pulls timing. Any less, and I'm just leaving power on the table. I have spent less than $1k on my mods, so don't think that I have spent a lot of money in my pursuit of 11s.
Turbo upgrade? Hah, hell no.
As has been said maybe 957,324 times, 20-21psi is recommended on pump gas. This is what I run daily. Anymore than that, and I incur knock, which pulls timing. Any less, and I'm just leaving power on the table. I have spent less than $1k on my mods, so don't think that I have spent a lot of money in my pursuit of 11s.
Turbo upgrade? Hah, hell no.
Oct 27, 2005, 09:56 AM
#20
Originally Posted by Aux.
So, you don't have a turbo upgrade but ou do adjust your turbo on race gas. I understand about the knocking ( i read a whole paper on it that someone with to much time wrote) and understand the timing thing. So i would imagine that you lower your boost on the track to prevent from knocking ( do you have a knock link or do you just go by ear ? ). Me personally i would leave my MBC on 20-21 PSI also because all i do is street driving on 91 pump gas. Ohhhh and War don't be so modest we know your part of the 10 sec. club !
Oct 27, 2005, 10:01 AM
#21
You say you run over 21 PSI with no upgrade ?? Wouldn't that overspeed your turbine ? Or does it have something to do with you using race gas? I know how dangerous knocking is for your engine so why would you wait to read your run if your damaging your engine in the process? I have actually thought about getting the knock link asa preventative for when the big day comes that i will need it.
Oct 27, 2005, 10:05 AM
#22
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Well, I have ZERO personal experience with the Hallman, so take from my statements what you will based on that fact.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a generic rundown of the specifics of the unit:
Firstly, each unit comes with a "No Hassle" Lifetime Warranty which is fully transferable to any subsequent product owner. If there are ANY problems with the unit, we will either repair it, replace it, or refund the total purchase price (minus shipping).
It is completely manufactured and assembled in-house at Forge Engineering/Forge Motorsport in Gloucester England.
Video Tour of Forge UK can be seen here:
http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=media
The units are made from aero-space grade 6061 solid billet aluminum alloy and we are fully certified under the ISO 9001 quality control standards for manufacturing and distribution.
The two springs used in the units are 100% cold-wound to prevent and "relaxing" or loosening of the spring tension over time and to provide reliable and repeatable actuation of the check-ball.
The check-ball is a 100% stainless steel ball bearing which is manufactured to a very controlled size and weight to acheive optimal performance and reliability.
The adjustment knob uses a unique ratcheting feature and a wide range of adjustment to allow precise and positive adjustment of the unit to the smallest increments. This also allows the user to keep track of their settings and quickly adjust between an infinite number of desired boost levels.
The units are available in a highly polished bare aluminum finish or in limited quantities in a semi-hard-anodized Black finish with contrasting lettering.
We supply two universal aluminum mounting brackets (which are easily modified as desired) for the mounting of the unit at almost any location inside the engine bay or cabin of the vehicle if desired.
Installed on my car:
We will also now be supplying generic fitting instructions with each unit to aid in installation.
We also carry, and offer separately, a wide range of colored vacuum tubing (Black, Blue, or Red) available in 3 meter long lengths (or other custom lengths as required) to aid in the installation and mounting of the unit. (either 3mm or 4mm bore will work)
In the short time it has been available, the units have been used sucessfully on various forced induction applications and have seen up to over 40 PSI of repeated use on certain vehicles.
Every Forge Motorsport vehicle uses this product and it is endorsed by various other tuners, shops, and other product manufacturers in the market. (many of whom frequent EvoM.
)
Retail pricing is $89 plus shipping, but deals can sometimes be had by contacting certain vendors.
What else do you care to know?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a generic rundown of the specifics of the unit:
Firstly, each unit comes with a "No Hassle" Lifetime Warranty which is fully transferable to any subsequent product owner. If there are ANY problems with the unit, we will either repair it, replace it, or refund the total purchase price (minus shipping).
It is completely manufactured and assembled in-house at Forge Engineering/Forge Motorsport in Gloucester England.
Video Tour of Forge UK can be seen here:
http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=media
The units are made from aero-space grade 6061 solid billet aluminum alloy and we are fully certified under the ISO 9001 quality control standards for manufacturing and distribution.
The two springs used in the units are 100% cold-wound to prevent and "relaxing" or loosening of the spring tension over time and to provide reliable and repeatable actuation of the check-ball.
The check-ball is a 100% stainless steel ball bearing which is manufactured to a very controlled size and weight to acheive optimal performance and reliability.
The adjustment knob uses a unique ratcheting feature and a wide range of adjustment to allow precise and positive adjustment of the unit to the smallest increments. This also allows the user to keep track of their settings and quickly adjust between an infinite number of desired boost levels.
The units are available in a highly polished bare aluminum finish or in limited quantities in a semi-hard-anodized Black finish with contrasting lettering.
We supply two universal aluminum mounting brackets (which are easily modified as desired) for the mounting of the unit at almost any location inside the engine bay or cabin of the vehicle if desired.
Installed on my car:
We will also now be supplying generic fitting instructions with each unit to aid in installation.
We also carry, and offer separately, a wide range of colored vacuum tubing (Black, Blue, or Red) available in 3 meter long lengths (or other custom lengths as required) to aid in the installation and mounting of the unit. (either 3mm or 4mm bore will work)
In the short time it has been available, the units have been used sucessfully on various forced induction applications and have seen up to over 40 PSI of repeated use on certain vehicles.
Every Forge Motorsport vehicle uses this product and it is endorsed by various other tuners, shops, and other product manufacturers in the market. (many of whom frequent EvoM.
)Retail pricing is $89 plus shipping, but deals can sometimes be had by contacting certain vendors.
What else do you care to know?
Last edited by Mike@Forge; Oct 27, 2005 at 10:07 AM.
Oct 27, 2005, 10:10 AM
#23
Originally Posted by Aux.
You say you run over 21 PSI with no upgrade ?? Wouldn't that overspeed your turbine ? Or does it have something to do with you using race gas? I know how dangerous knocking is for your engine so why would you wait to read your run if your damaging your engine in the process? I have actually thought about getting the knock link asa preventative for when the big day comes that i will need it.
The knock I'm talking about isn't dangerous. I am afraid you may not quite understand. Knock happens all the time...the ECU knows to retard timing depending on how much knock is detects. Of course, knock is not a GOOD thing, but the level of knock I'm referring to isn't that significant. I'm not damaging my engine while logging a single run that has slight knock, so it's no big deal. I haven't seen anyone use knock link on the Evo yet, so I don't know anything about it. I have no visible gauges, because I prefer to look stock. I just log a run, interpret the readings, and adjust my AFRs accordingly.
Oct 27, 2005, 10:19 AM
#24
You got me ! Forge is who i will go with. My only questionis the position in which you mounted your MBC. That close to the engine surly heats it up a good bit ! Do you just not adjust it or does the heat not really affect it that much ? Oh and dumb question, why the bigger size hose ? For more PSI 
?
?
Originally Posted by Mike@Forge
Well, I have ZERO personal experience with the Hallman, so take from my statements what you will based on that fact.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a generic rundown of the specifics of the unit:
Firstly, each unit comes with a "No Hassle" Lifetime Warranty which is fully transferable to any subsequent product owner. If there are ANY problems with the unit, we will either repair it, replace it, or refund the total purchase price (minus shipping).
It is completely manufactured and assembled in-house at Forge Engineering/Forge Motorsport in Gloucester England.
Video Tour of Forge UK can be seen here:
http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=media
The units are made from aero-space grade 6061 solid billet aluminum alloy and we are fully certified under the ISO 9001 quality control standards for manufacturing and distribution.
The two springs used in the units are 100% cold-wound to prevent and "relaxing" or loosening of the spring tension over time and to provide reliable and repeatable actuation of the check-ball.
The check-ball is a 100% stainless steel ball bearing which is manufactured to a very controlled size and weight to acheive optimal performance and reliability.
The adjustment knob uses a unique ratcheting feature and a wide range of adjustment to allow precise and positive adjustment of the unit to the smallest increments. This also allows the user to keep track of their settings and quickly adjust between an infinite number of desired boost levels.
The units are available in a highly polished bare aluminum finish or in limited quantities in a semi-hard-anodized Black finish with contrasting lettering.
We supply two universal aluminum mounting brackets (which are easily modified as desired) for the mounting of the unit at almost any location inside the engine bay or cabin of the vehicle if desired.
Installed on my car:
We will also now be supplying generic fitting instructions with each unit to aid in installation.
We also carry, and offer separately, a wide range of colored vacuum tubing (Black, Blue, or Red) available in 3 meter long lengths (or other custom lengths as required) to aid in the installation and mounting of the unit. (either 3mm or 4mm bore will work)
In the short time it has been available, the units have been used sucessfully on various forced induction applications and have seen up to over 40 PSI of repeated use on certain vehicles.
Every Forge Motorsport vehicle uses this product and it is endorsed by various other tuners, shops, and other product manufacturers in the market. (many of whom frequent EvoM. )
Retail pricing is $89 plus shipping, but deals can sometimes be had by contacting certain vendors.
What else do you care to know?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a generic rundown of the specifics of the unit:
Firstly, each unit comes with a "No Hassle" Lifetime Warranty which is fully transferable to any subsequent product owner. If there are ANY problems with the unit, we will either repair it, replace it, or refund the total purchase price (minus shipping).
It is completely manufactured and assembled in-house at Forge Engineering/Forge Motorsport in Gloucester England.
Video Tour of Forge UK can be seen here:
http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=media
The units are made from aero-space grade 6061 solid billet aluminum alloy and we are fully certified under the ISO 9001 quality control standards for manufacturing and distribution.
The two springs used in the units are 100% cold-wound to prevent and "relaxing" or loosening of the spring tension over time and to provide reliable and repeatable actuation of the check-ball.
The check-ball is a 100% stainless steel ball bearing which is manufactured to a very controlled size and weight to acheive optimal performance and reliability.
The adjustment knob uses a unique ratcheting feature and a wide range of adjustment to allow precise and positive adjustment of the unit to the smallest increments. This also allows the user to keep track of their settings and quickly adjust between an infinite number of desired boost levels.
The units are available in a highly polished bare aluminum finish or in limited quantities in a semi-hard-anodized Black finish with contrasting lettering.
We supply two universal aluminum mounting brackets (which are easily modified as desired) for the mounting of the unit at almost any location inside the engine bay or cabin of the vehicle if desired.
Installed on my car:
We will also now be supplying generic fitting instructions with each unit to aid in installation.
We also carry, and offer separately, a wide range of colored vacuum tubing (Black, Blue, or Red) available in 3 meter long lengths (or other custom lengths as required) to aid in the installation and mounting of the unit. (either 3mm or 4mm bore will work)
In the short time it has been available, the units have been used sucessfully on various forced induction applications and have seen up to over 40 PSI of repeated use on certain vehicles.
Every Forge Motorsport vehicle uses this product and it is endorsed by various other tuners, shops, and other product manufacturers in the market. (many of whom frequent EvoM.
)Retail pricing is $89 plus shipping, but deals can sometimes be had by contacting certain vendors.
What else do you care to know?
Oct 27, 2005, 10:24 AM
#25
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 1,240
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The heat doesn't really affect it much at all. At least in my experience. Just don't touch it until it cools down.
The hosing that I have used as actually the 3mm bore, the smallest available. The larger hosing is actually less advantageous. You want to use the shortest and smallest vacuum line possible for the quickest response and least lag. Longer and/or larger volume lines will increase lag and decrease response. the 3mm-4mm difference, however, would not be even remotely noticeable.
The hosing that I have used as actually the 3mm bore, the smallest available. The larger hosing is actually less advantageous. You want to use the shortest and smallest vacuum line possible for the quickest response and least lag. Longer and/or larger volume lines will increase lag and decrease response. the 3mm-4mm difference, however, would not be even remotely noticeable.
Oct 27, 2005, 10:25 AM
#26
Running that high of boost you said with race gas it prevents knock, now does you ECU accomodate the timing when running that octane or do you have a flash that manages that ? Like i said in earlier post my expertise is in aircraft turbines so overspeed to me is legitimate regardless, but i guess i learned somthing today ! So , you say it can handle up to 28 PSI huh ? But not reliably ? Is there any wear or degradation to the life expectancy to the turbine pushing it that high ? Also, have you made any transmision adjustments or are you just really good at launching ?
Originally Posted by Warrtalon
???? Overspeed my turbine? Man, you need to catch up with the times. The stock 16G6 turbo can run up to 28-29psi. It's efficient up to 25psi. The only thing that keeps us from running that boost all the time is knock. With race gas or alcohol injection, you can run these higher boosts without damaging the engine. 21psi ist just a good pump gas recommendation. It's by no means the limit of the turbo.
The knock I'm talking about isn't dangerous. I am afraid you may not quite understand. Knock happens all the time...the ECU knows to retard timing depending on how much knock is detects. Of course, knock is not a GOOD thing, but the level of knock I'm referring to isn't that significant. I'm not damaging my engine while logging a single run that has slight knock, so it's no big deal. I haven't seen anyone use knock link on the Evo yet, so I don't know anything about it. I have no visible gauges, because I prefer to look stock. I just log a run, interpret the readings, and adjust my AFRs accordingly.
The knock I'm talking about isn't dangerous. I am afraid you may not quite understand. Knock happens all the time...the ECU knows to retard timing depending on how much knock is detects. Of course, knock is not a GOOD thing, but the level of knock I'm referring to isn't that significant. I'm not damaging my engine while logging a single run that has slight knock, so it's no big deal. I haven't seen anyone use knock link on the Evo yet, so I don't know anything about it. I have no visible gauges, because I prefer to look stock. I just log a run, interpret the readings, and adjust my AFRs accordingly.
Oct 27, 2005, 10:28 AM
#27
Hey mike are those lines coming off your head for an oil catch can ? 
Originally Posted by Mike@Forge
The heat doesn't really affect it much at all. At least in my experience. Just don't touch it until it cools down.
The hosing that I have used as actually the 3mm bore, the smallest available. The larger hosing is actually less advantageous. You want to use the shortest and smallest vacuum line possible for the quickest response and least lag. Longer and/or larger volume lines will increase lag and decrease response. the 3mm-4mm difference, however, would not be even remotely noticeable.
The hosing that I have used as actually the 3mm bore, the smallest available. The larger hosing is actually less advantageous. You want to use the shortest and smallest vacuum line possible for the quickest response and least lag. Longer and/or larger volume lines will increase lag and decrease response. the 3mm-4mm difference, however, would not be even remotely noticeable.
Last edited by Aux.; Oct 27, 2005 at 10:31 AM.
Oct 27, 2005, 10:30 AM
#28
Originally Posted by Aux.
Running that high of boost you said with race gas it prevents knock, now does you ECU accomodate the timing when running that octane or do you have a flash that manages that ? Like i said in earlier post my expertise is in aircraft turbines so overspeed to me is legitimate regardless, but i guess i learned somthing today ! So , you say it can handle up to 28 PSI huh ? But not reliably ? Is there any wear or degradation to the life expectancy to the turbine pushing it that high ? Also, have you made any transmision adjustments or are you just really good at launching ?
28psi is just oustide the turbo's efficiency, but it can make additional power over 25psi...it just can't sustain it long. I don't know if there is any empirical evidence to support this notion, but it is likely that if you were to run your turbo at 28psi constantly, it wouldn't last very long.
No tranny upgrades, but I do have an ACT clutch with street disc (single disc).
Oct 27, 2005, 10:32 AM
#29
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The hose with the clamp on it is for a catch can.
The hose running over the Unos, but not connected to it is for the BOV.
The line coming into the port on the Unos to the furthest right in the photo is from the turbo outlet and the hose from the port on the Unos to the left of that goes to the wastegate actuator.
The hose running over the Unos, but not connected to it is for the BOV.
The line coming into the port on the Unos to the furthest right in the photo is from the turbo outlet and the hose from the port on the Unos to the left of that goes to the wastegate actuator.
Oct 27, 2005, 10:35 AM
#30
Thats really cool War thanks for all the information man ! Yeah i heard that all the problems that we have with our stock clutches so i didn't know if you found a method to feather it just right or what . Hey how is the pressure on the pedal with that Act clutch in?