Dyno Crisis II: What's going on?
Mar 17, 2003, 12:40 PM
#16
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Re: Re: Dyno Crisis II: What's going on?
Let me start off by saying I'm not Shiv fan like his loyal Bay area supporters. I do respect his tuning knowledge and in fact I love how the ecutek is performing.
But I think you're a bit harsh and subjective with your statements.
My counterpoints is as follows
1) a dyno is a tuner's tool. If that's what shiv wants to use, that's fine. Take his dyno numbers and use it intelligently.
2) Obviously he's going to tune car base on the type of gas majority of the people gets.
3) I agree with you to a certain extent. Obviously Shiv like many tuners also have a business to run. Aftermarket products such as ECU are more prone to fabs and redesigns. Naturally, he'll praise on the current lastest and greatest and why it's better than previous product. Now to be fair I don't like his non tuning products such as exhaust, pulleys, and so forth. The "gains" over competitor products are subjective and price difference doesn't always justify these gains.
I'm just being fair about this. Seems EVO fans and DSMers are doing enough bashing on Shiv due to their own bias. There's no need to carry the Vishnu vs Turboxs and whatever Subaru tuners sentiments on this board.
I think your comments about Shiv should also be taken with a grain of salt.
But I think you're a bit harsh and subjective with your statements.
My counterpoints is as follows
1) a dyno is a tuner's tool. If that's what shiv wants to use, that's fine. Take his dyno numbers and use it intelligently.
2) Obviously he's going to tune car base on the type of gas majority of the people gets.
3) I agree with you to a certain extent. Obviously Shiv like many tuners also have a business to run. Aftermarket products such as ECU are more prone to fabs and redesigns. Naturally, he'll praise on the current lastest and greatest and why it's better than previous product. Now to be fair I don't like his non tuning products such as exhaust, pulleys, and so forth. The "gains" over competitor products are subjective and price difference doesn't always justify these gains.
I'm just being fair about this. Seems EVO fans and DSMers are doing enough bashing on Shiv due to their own bias. There's no need to carry the Vishnu vs Turboxs and whatever Subaru tuners sentiments on this board.
I think your comments about Shiv should also be taken with a grain of salt.
Originally posted by Alfriedesq
Whats going on with shiv - - a few things - first he is a car genious - I have been following his posts on the i-club for two years and I learned a lot about WRX tuning from him and he certainly knows his stuff - - unlike some other WRX tuners - Shiv is very careful and has not blown up any motors to the best of my knowledge - - however
Everyone has his her faults (I certainly know my own) and Shiv is a very excentiric guy in many ways
1 - He is stuck on his eltist "super" dyno which reads totallyu differently than any other US dyno that we are familair with so his numbers don't mean anything
2 - He re-fuses to use any decent gas at all - he is 100% against race gas or any good unleaded premium fuel and he seems to really like 91 **** gas
3 - He sings the praises of what ever he is selling at the moment - just reasearch his past threads on the i-club about the Tec II - - then the unichip and now the ECUTEK - - - he will say that what ever he is selling at that moment is the best - and then trash what you bought from him a few months before
I suggest we all take what ever Shiv says with a grain of salt - keeping the above 3 points in mind and don't forget # 4 - Shiv is doing all of this to make $$$ so his is hardly unbiased
The guy is brilliant but if you labor over every thing he says like he is some car god you are going to loose your sanity
Whats going on with shiv - - a few things - first he is a car genious - I have been following his posts on the i-club for two years and I learned a lot about WRX tuning from him and he certainly knows his stuff - - unlike some other WRX tuners - Shiv is very careful and has not blown up any motors to the best of my knowledge - - however
Everyone has his her faults (I certainly know my own) and Shiv is a very excentiric guy in many ways
1 - He is stuck on his eltist "super" dyno which reads totallyu differently than any other US dyno that we are familair with so his numbers don't mean anything
2 - He re-fuses to use any decent gas at all - he is 100% against race gas or any good unleaded premium fuel and he seems to really like 91 **** gas
3 - He sings the praises of what ever he is selling at the moment - just reasearch his past threads on the i-club about the Tec II - - then the unichip and now the ECUTEK - - - he will say that what ever he is selling at that moment is the best - and then trash what you bought from him a few months before
I suggest we all take what ever Shiv says with a grain of salt - keeping the above 3 points in mind and don't forget # 4 - Shiv is doing all of this to make $$$ so his is hardly unbiased
The guy is brilliant but if you labor over every thing he says like he is some car god you are going to loose your sanity
Last edited by wrx-vs-evo; Mar 17, 2003 at 12:42 PM.
Mar 17, 2003, 12:44 PM
#17
Paul-
As always I love hearing from you but I feel the need to set the record straight.
On the whole HP vs. Torque debate:
HP is power and acceleration. The desire for torque over power is really a request for a wider powerband. High torque down low is also higher power down low.
To everyone else-
If any has better data on a larger selection of cars than please present your data. Give Shiv a break
Erik
As always I love hearing from you but I feel the need to set the record straight.
- Shiv has a dyno dynamics because it is a tuner dyno. He gets immediate feedback on torque and HP during a run not after it as on a Dyno Jet. Make tuning much easier.
- His HP numbers on a JDM VII match within 2 HP to Evo VII on a Dyno Dynamics in the UK.
- He has tested both the JDM VII and several USDM VIII with a mix that is equivalent to 93 AKI gas.
- He has tested several VIIs and none of them have made more than 180HP peak all have been within 3 hp I believe.
- He has also mention that it was not just peak power, different the torque and HP curves were different throughout.
- The difference between the JDM and USDM has been noted. He is just looking for the other 20 hp.
- If you don't like his products or attitude or methods go somewhere else
On the whole HP vs. Torque debate:
HP is power and acceleration. The desire for torque over power is really a request for a wider powerband. High torque down low is also higher power down low.
To everyone else-
If any has better data on a larger selection of cars than please present your data. Give Shiv a break
Erik
Last edited by erikgj; Mar 17, 2003 at 02:25 PM.
Mar 17, 2003, 12:58 PM
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Paul, thanks for the great post. Always great to read your posts.
Erik, thanks for posting your views on things too. You seem to pointing out the things that others might be overlooking.
Erik, thanks for posting your views on things too. You seem to pointing out the things that others might be overlooking.
Mar 17, 2003, 06:46 PM
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Agree with the M3 comment... drove the new M3s... not
impressed.. under 4k rpm, it actually feels weaker than my E36
M3...
I've asked a million times... could Shiv's dyno work on a fwd or
rwd car????
impressed.. under 4k rpm, it actually feels weaker than my E36
M3...
I've asked a million times... could Shiv's dyno work on a fwd or
rwd car????
Mar 17, 2003, 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by erikgj
Paul-
As always I love hearing from you but I feel the need to set the record straight.
Paul-
As always I love hearing from you but I feel the need to set the record straight.
But it was getting out of hand, I just wanted to weigh in with my sort-of-humble opinion.
Cheers,
Paul Hansen
Mar 17, 2003, 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by JT-KGY
Agree with the M3 comment... drove the new M3s... not
impressed.. under 4k rpm, it actually feels weaker than my E36
M3...
I've asked a million times... could Shiv's dyno work on a fwd or
rwd car????
Agree with the M3 comment... drove the new M3s... not
impressed.. under 4k rpm, it actually feels weaker than my E36
M3...
I've asked a million times... could Shiv's dyno work on a fwd or
rwd car????
shiv
Mar 17, 2003, 08:00 PM
#24
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Good summary Paul,
I would like to ensure the historic record reflect that the fetish for horsepower in the America's (Canada too) was developed long before Honda had products with 4 wheels.
There are a few "seasoned " drivers here that remember when an ECU was called progressive linkage and anything less than 8 cylinders was regarded as mom’s car. Horsepower is king. Stupid maybe, but hey 20% of our citizens believe in aliens. 
Most of us that are buying an STI or EVO haven’t a clue what we are getting and that makes it exciting for me. I am looking forward to having a car that is actually designed for spirited driving that includes lefts, rights and curves. With help from world tuners and experts, we will figure out what these cars can do and more than likely add a new branch to the auto sports tree; which will probably **** off the purist, but that is us! Just be patient and try not to giggle to much as we plow down the road of experience.
Speedlimit...........
Originally posted by shirokuma
I also feel the need to point out that there is still a Honda-derived fetish with horsepower that really, really needs to be put out back of the shed and shot.
I also feel the need to point out that there is still a Honda-derived fetish with horsepower that really, really needs to be put out back of the shed and shot.
There are a few "seasoned " drivers here that remember when an ECU was called progressive linkage and anything less than 8 cylinders was regarded as mom’s car. Horsepower is king. Stupid maybe, but hey 20% of our citizens believe in aliens. Most of us that are buying an STI or EVO haven’t a clue what we are getting and that makes it exciting for me. I am looking forward to having a car that is actually designed for spirited driving that includes lefts, rights and curves. With help from world tuners and experts, we will figure out what these cars can do and more than likely add a new branch to the auto sports tree; which will probably **** off the purist, but that is us! Just be patient and try not to giggle to much as we plow down the road of experience.
Speedlimit...........
Last edited by Speedlimit; Mar 17, 2003 at 10:18 PM.
Mar 17, 2003, 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by Speedlimit
try not to giggle to much as we plow down the road of experience.
Speedlimit...........
try not to giggle to much as we plow down the road of experience.
Speedlimit...........
This is my face everytime boost kicks in.
Mar 17, 2003, 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by shiv@vishnu
Yes, it can and does. Even had my motorcycle on it at one time.
shiv
Yes, it can and does. Even had my motorcycle on it at one time.
shiv
Shiv,
Could you post some numbers for a few popular FWD/RWD cars??
(E36 M3s would be nice..
)Such that ppl that are used to the dynojet numbers could relate...
(though I think you mentioned that dynamic dyno is 18% lower?)
Also, you posted earlier that WRXs typically gets 160awhp, S4s
180 and Eclipse getting 140awhp... are those numbers done with
91 or 93 gas?
Thank you,
Mar 18, 2003, 12:41 AM
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Grr.
Yes the Evo is a fast car, so is the new SVT Cobra, but guess what? Ford did power robbing things pre-release but fixed them when word got out. Mitsu gave the press a ringer, as fast is the actual Evo is, Mitsu still 'cheated'. If they advertise 271 hp, Id expect 271 hp. Not 270. Blaming the low awhp result on our **** poor gas is no excuse. Mitsu knows that the west coast runs on cat urine and should have accounted for that.
Dont get me wrong, the Evo is a deal, performance wise, but that dosnt give Mitsu the right to snuff the numbers.
/rant.
Edit: This is going by Shiv's dyno, which I firmly trust.
Yes the Evo is a fast car, so is the new SVT Cobra, but guess what? Ford did power robbing things pre-release but fixed them when word got out. Mitsu gave the press a ringer, as fast is the actual Evo is, Mitsu still 'cheated'. If they advertise 271 hp, Id expect 271 hp. Not 270. Blaming the low awhp result on our **** poor gas is no excuse. Mitsu knows that the west coast runs on cat urine and should have accounted for that.
Dont get me wrong, the Evo is a deal, performance wise, but that dosnt give Mitsu the right to snuff the numbers.
/rant.
Edit: This is going by Shiv's dyno, which I firmly trust.
Last edited by Score; Mar 18, 2003 at 12:45 AM.
Mar 21, 2003, 06:39 PM
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Man anyone who read the subby forums a few years ago should be crackign up that al is at it again. You EVO guys better watch out your in store for alot of misplleign and HARSH TYPING. And all sorts of goodies.
And when all gets his car up and running im sure he will have one of the fastest EVO on teh east coast. By that time im sure Shiv will have some shady *** blackops going on in his garage.
And when all gets his car up and running im sure he will have one of the fastest EVO on teh east coast. By that time im sure Shiv will have some shady *** blackops going on in his garage.