stiguy

iTrader: (1)

I have an STi. I had 300whp 331wtq (intake, utec, turboback) I ran 12.7 @107.4 STi's with the accessport tend to be a little more conservative. Your evo is probably faster.

3000ways

Sinister Subaru I think you are a pretty cool guy from reading your past posts so please don't take my post the wrong way.

With that said, I think there is no need to argue this, EVOs and STis should just meet up and race and see who is better, wait a minute they've already done this three times and it has been total EVO domination with the exception of Big Valley Racing. Even with Big Valley Racing who placed 1st out of 20 cars (10 EVOs and 10 STis/WRXs) in the most recent shootout the EVOs still placed, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and you got it 11th. Props to Big Valley Racing, but still EVO domination. Until proven otherwise, there really is no argument.

Also is there an EVO out there that can potentially run low 12s with a very good driver with just intake and TBE, there may be, it's called the EVO IX, but nobody seems to care about this car for some reason.

Also a stock turbo Stage 4 EVO should have no problems beating any or all stock turbo STis, sorry but the stock turbo on the STi is no where near as capable as the EVOs. Still you never know, there have been plenty of Stage 4 EVOs that have ran 11s, then there have been plenty that have ran some miserable times, in the end it's up to the drivers to extract the potential of the car. The author of this thread already mentioned he is not that great at launching, but a better shifter. While being a good shifter doesn't hurt, it would be even more important if this race was from a roll in which the EVO in this case should easily beat the STi in this case. Still this is a drag race, and the launch is the most important. It may be close, it shouldn't be if both cars were driven equally, but that's never the case and most likely won't be the case in this race, so it should be close.

Sinister Subaru

Thanks for the compliment, and I do appreciate it, but you can't base all performance aspects over some race. If that were the case, I could simply say, "See, the STi is better, because Big Valley won!" Also, if that were the case, it's safe to say that overall, import performance can't even touch domestic performance. Until imports run 4.30s @ 327 mph, there is no debate. There's no import in the world that can touch anywhere near 4.30s @ 327 mph. In your words, "total domination."

As for beating "all" stock STis, there are STis out there running stock turbos, and making around 400-435hp with them. That's plenty to run very low 12s/high 11s with in a car that weighs 3300lbs, and has AWD. You're also mentioning this "Stage 4" setup, which is clearly more than what this said STi would have. A Cobb Stage 2 isn't all that. A Stage 4 setup for an Evo is a lot more than a Cobb Stage 2 with a TBE, intake, and exhaust. Also, with a Stage 4, isn't the Evo making 22+lbs of boost? A Stage 2 Cobb is only making about 19 lbs. You're comparing apples with oranges.

Can an IX run low 12s with a TBE and intake? I seriously doubt it, regardless how good the driver is. You might see a 12.70, but you're not going to see a 12.20.

3000ways

Is 400-435HP to the wheels or flywheel, I know the answer already, so you don't have to answer. Please show me examples of stock turbo STis running 11s, last time I checked the record with out Nos was still very much in the 12s, I admit I haven't kept up to date with the Subaru crowd, so if I am wrong please correct me, I've been wrong before.

I said in the case of this race which is a Stage 4 EVO vs. a Cobb Stage 2. Also a Stage 4 beating any and all stock turbo STis, maybe that's a little optimistic, but most stock turbo STis will see taillights from a stage 4 EVO and if there is a stock turbo STi that can hang then I assure you it has more than what a stock turbo stage 4 EVO has. With race gas, stage 4 EVOs have hit very close and a few have surpasssed 400WHP, alcohol, allows them to put down similiar numbers on the streets. Please if STis on stock turbos have reached these limits then please inform us with evidence such as dyno and track numbers.

Sinister Subaru

There have been STis out there that have made nearly 400 whp on stock turbos with excellent tuning. I would recommend checking out www.iwsti.com, and they will tell you the same thing. Then, you mention, "without nitrous." Why "without" nitrous? A mod is a mod. As of this moment, I don't have time to scour all over the Net for your proof, but expect me to post back with it this evening.

I'd hate to pull another member into this that definitely had a very nice car, and use him as an example, but he posted a video, and his car had cams, TBE, intake, tune, among some other small mods, and he only beat an STi with a TBE, intake, and Stage 2 by about a car. No car's alike, for sure, but when you add cams and other expensive mods, that's normally some pretty serious heat to be packing. I would definitely expect to beat an STi by more than a car length that was only packing a TBE, intake, and tune.

3000ways

Ok what ever you say.

Sinister Subaru

NapervilleEVO

because no evos run nos and that would be

BTW as the OP said he spent less money on his upgrades then the STI.

you are right. but an intake is not needed on our stock turbo. it probably will make you run bad, while maybe adding 5-10 whp after a tune. and since there are no other mods on this car, there is no way to tune for it. so lets stop talking about an intake on the evo. a stock IX has run 12.9s. with a TBE (15-20 whp) it can run 12.70-5. the next best mod for us is probably a $175 flash(20-30whp). that will put you into the mid 12s on $800 of mods that would take 2 hours to install. if that is not easy I don't know what is.

we only speak in wheel hp on this site. no one cares how much crank you make. if you were taking about whp id love to see a dyno of a stock sti, then one w/ tbe and AP make 70 whp. this dyno must be on the same day and same car.

Sinister Subaru

"We only speak in wheel hp on this site." Sorry, we weren't aware that you were the one that set the presidence for what the "horsepower method of speak" is.

You talk about these IXs that run 12.90s. Have you personally seen one?

As for bolting on upgrades, it takes 40 minutes for a Cobb AP to program the ECU. It probably takes about 1.5 hours to bolt on a new turbo back exhaust. So I don't see the advantage that you're speaking of. As for intakes on the STi, the only one I haven't heard of causing problems is a K&N typhoon, or APS intake. I have neither, so I can't comment on them.

I'd hate to break the news to you, but you're not going to pick up 70 whp (that's probably about 100 hp in an AWD car at the crank) with an ECU tune and an exhaust. Since you are making this claim, I'd like to see proven dyno results of an Evo IX doing such.

phenem

iTrader: (39)

The STi had more done than my car does. He has the Stage 2 package from cobb TBE, uppipe, headers, hyperflow tmic, intake....and the list goes on.

My car only has the Buschur stage 3 + kit currently. Which is really only TBE, intake, cams, ECU, IC Pipes, and MBC set to 22 psi.

Dollar for Dollar he spent a good bit more than me, and thats why he was so pissed. I would also contribute it to my car being about 200 lbs lighter than his (we weighed them)

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

It's good to see that others are finally getting fed up with your Subie sympathizing. Everyone knows we only refer to WHP; that's not "his" rule. Why would you ever refer to crank HP when nobody can prove or verify crank HP? Are these STi's making 400+hp taking their engine out and testing the crank HP directly? No, they're not. The only thing you can measure within reason is wheel horesepower. Thus, we only refer to wheel horsepower.

IX's just came out and a few have hit 12.9. In due time, there will be many more who do it, and this isn't with great driving - just average driving, since they are doing it at 106-107mph. I hit 12.64 when I was making that sort of power, so the great drivers will beat 12.9 more than likely.

05 Evos can and have hit low 12s with minimal mods. I hit 12.2 with a cat-back, mbc, safc. Anthony in Idaho hit 12.2s with TBE and safc (no mbc). No, we wouldn't have hit low 12s without the SAFC, though, but that's some pretty cheap parts right there...

anjapower

iTrader: (18)

unless STi's replace their stock turbos, they are pretty weak...most at the local dragstrip barely break 12s...evo's with those mods are running about half a second faster.

Even with aftermarket turbos they aren't that powerful because they start reaching limitations of that weak block.

Evo > Sti, end of discussion.

NapervilleEVO

first off take a deep breath(i had to myself b4 i responded), relax, and read what i wrote again.
AP costs more then $175. spending less money is much easier. intakes on EVOs not stis.

a subie owner claimed 70 whp off those two mods for STIs. i was saying that is rediculous and would like to see dynos.

thx warr i was writng this post on and off for awhile (it was originally much longer) and didn't see you posted.

bacalhau16

iTrader: (5)

a reflash is the easiest source and a very reliable source of EM.
Cars absolutly dont respond to mods all the same. That is what i find to be a stupid comment because we should all now that this isnt true, considering if u take 2 EVO's stock for stock throw them on the dyno and they will have different #'s.
Warrtalon is one of those people who has hit low 12's with a tbe and a K&N. i guess he also had a fuel pump and a mbc which helps but are not very expensive. He also had an S-AFC at that time too!

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

I did low 12s without the fuel pump and TBE, too. The TBE/FP helped me get to 12.01...