2004 STi Cobb Stage 2+
Nov 9, 2005, 03:47 PM
#62
Just to stir things up a bit:
I showed my buddy with the STi this post and he was flaming mad! We had a heated discussion about a Scooby block and EVO block and it basically came down to the EVO block had far more potential in stock form (I think it has far more potential period)!
Then I said, as he was leaving and we were off the subject, "Hey guess what?", "My car is only a 2.0L!"!!!
I think people overlook that about the EVO, we also don't have Variable Valve Timing
AVCS = scooby
MIVEC = mitsu
In my opinion the new IX is something you can start to compare but the only real block that scooby makes in the US that you can compare to the EVO is the ej20 in the 02-05 WRX's. Honestly thats not even a discusion in my opinion, the EVO > WRX block any day of the week.
Just some thoughts....
I showed my buddy with the STi this post and he was flaming mad! We had a heated discussion about a Scooby block and EVO block and it basically came down to the EVO block had far more potential in stock form (I think it has far more potential period)!
Then I said, as he was leaving and we were off the subject, "Hey guess what?", "My car is only a 2.0L!"!!!
I think people overlook that about the EVO, we also don't have Variable Valve Timing
AVCS = scooby
MIVEC = mitsu
In my opinion the new IX is something you can start to compare but the only real block that scooby makes in the US that you can compare to the EVO is the ej20 in the 02-05 WRX's. Honestly thats not even a discusion in my opinion, the EVO > WRX block any day of the week.
Just some thoughts....
Last edited by phenem; Nov 9, 2005 at 03:50 PM.
Nov 9, 2005, 03:55 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by NapervilleEVO
first off take a deep breath(i had to myself b4 i responded), relax, and read what i wrote again.
AP costs more then $175. spending less money is much easier. intakes on EVOs not stis.
a subie owner claimed 70 whp off those two mods for STIs. i was saying that is rediculous and would like to see dynos.
thx warr i was writng this post on and off for awhile (it was originally much longer) and didn't see you posted.
AP costs more then $175. spending less money is much easier. intakes on EVOs not stis.
a subie owner claimed 70 whp off those two mods for STIs. i was saying that is rediculous and would like to see dynos.
thx warr i was writng this post on and off for awhile (it was originally much longer) and didn't see you posted.
You guys really run into some characters, don't you.
As for reflashes, they're great, but only one problem. You may spend $175 for a tune, but what happens when you get some additional mods? It's another $175, and another, and another, and another. Before you know it, you've done spent $800 on reflashes.
I'm with ya as far as "spending less is much easier." I'd be stupid not to agree with you. Nobody wants to spend more for less, but that's the way it goes.
What I really find amusing is you guys come out and rattle on about 11s and 12s with nothing more than TBEs and ECUs, and maybe a downpipe, or whatever, and then I go on to read about cars that have $20,000 tied into them, and they're putting down maybe 50 hp more, and running tads quicker in the 1/4 mile.
With that mentioned, someone PLEASE explain to me how YOU can spend $2,000 and run xxxx @ xxxx in the 1/4 mile, while "Tuner X" spends $20,000 on a company car to achieve the same times. Example: ESX Motorsports STi. $91,000, and it runs 13.50s? WTF is up with that? Apparently, "450 hp," according to them.
C'mon now, how's it so much cheaper for all you guys to make the same numbers as these cars that have $1,000s tied into them, and don't tell me that you guys are simply "smarter."
Nov 9, 2005, 04:29 PM
#64
Originally Posted by Sinister Subaru
70whp off of a Cobb AP and TBE?
You guys really run into some characters, don't you.
As for reflashes, they're great, but only one problem. You may spend $175 for a tune, but what happens when you get some additional mods? It's another $175, and another, and another, and another. Before you know it, you've done spent $800 on reflashes.
I'm with ya as far as "spending less is much easier." I'd be stupid not to agree with you. Nobody wants to spend more for less, but that's the way it goes.
What I really find amusing is you guys come out and rattle on about 11s and 12s with nothing more than TBEs and ECUs, and maybe a downpipe, or whatever, and then I go on to read about cars that have $20,000 tied into them, and they're putting down maybe 50 hp more, and running tads quicker in the 1/4 mile.
With that mentioned, someone PLEASE explain to me how YOU can spend $2,000 and run xxxx @ xxxx in the 1/4 mile, while "Tuner X" spends $20,000 on a company car to achieve the same times. Example: ESX Motorsports STi. $91,000, and it runs 13.50s? WTF is up with that? Apparently, "450 hp," according to them.
C'mon now, how's it so much cheaper for all you guys to make the same numbers as these cars that have $1,000s tied into them, and don't tell me that you guys are simply "smarter."
You guys really run into some characters, don't you.
As for reflashes, they're great, but only one problem. You may spend $175 for a tune, but what happens when you get some additional mods? It's another $175, and another, and another, and another. Before you know it, you've done spent $800 on reflashes.
I'm with ya as far as "spending less is much easier." I'd be stupid not to agree with you. Nobody wants to spend more for less, but that's the way it goes.
What I really find amusing is you guys come out and rattle on about 11s and 12s with nothing more than TBEs and ECUs, and maybe a downpipe, or whatever, and then I go on to read about cars that have $20,000 tied into them, and they're putting down maybe 50 hp more, and running tads quicker in the 1/4 mile.
With that mentioned, someone PLEASE explain to me how YOU can spend $2,000 and run xxxx @ xxxx in the 1/4 mile, while "Tuner X" spends $20,000 on a company car to achieve the same times. Example: ESX Motorsports STi. $91,000, and it runs 13.50s? WTF is up with that? Apparently, "450 hp," according to them.
C'mon now, how's it so much cheaper for all you guys to make the same numbers as these cars that have $1,000s tied into them, and don't tell me that you guys are simply "smarter."
Why is this possible? Because the Evo responds better to mods than the STi, which is what we said 4 pages ago, and you refuted it.
Nov 9, 2005, 04:38 PM
#65
Also, some people want different things. While an S-AFC can yield similar results to a piggy back, I wanted the piggyback becuase I think it's a more elegant solution (my opinion only, not seeking to flame). My car (with a good driver) is probably marginally faster than Warrtalon's car and he has spend far fewer on mods than I have. I think it's all what you're looking for. But, I think, overall it is easier to mod an Evo than an Sti.
I was talking to a tuner here in SoCal, and they have yet to see an Sti put down 400 to the wheels. Not that they aren't out there, it's just that there are more Evos doing it.
I was talking to a tuner here in SoCal, and they have yet to see an Sti put down 400 to the wheels. Not that they aren't out there, it's just that there are more Evos doing it.
Nov 9, 2005, 04:57 PM
#66
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This thread started ok, but now it just seems like the Subie fans seem to be disputing evidence that seems to be staring them right in the face? (i.e., Warrtalon's times?)
What most of the people have said here holds true - I'd really recommend against refuting what seems to be common knowledge around here as far as modding the Evo goes. And yes, just because it's possible doesn't necessarily mean it will happen with all cars. But the fact is that it's possible.
There are those of us who have seen the times, who have seen the amazing runs. If you haven't, then alrighty. Your choice whether to believe it or not. All I know is that I don't know nearly enough about the STI to go on to NASIOC and go trolling about what is or isn't possible. I say that because if you DID know what the 4G63 is capable of, you wouldn't be doubting any of this. And just so you know, because a company dumps X amount of money into a car doesn't necessarily mean that a) the car is tuned the best it can be or b) that the driver can maximize the car's potential. It's just silly to make a comparison like that because there are far too many variables involved.
And frankly, there are a lot of good drivers on this board.
What most of the people have said here holds true - I'd really recommend against refuting what seems to be common knowledge around here as far as modding the Evo goes. And yes, just because it's possible doesn't necessarily mean it will happen with all cars. But the fact is that it's possible.
There are those of us who have seen the times, who have seen the amazing runs. If you haven't, then alrighty. Your choice whether to believe it or not. All I know is that I don't know nearly enough about the STI to go on to NASIOC and go trolling about what is or isn't possible. I say that because if you DID know what the 4G63 is capable of, you wouldn't be doubting any of this. And just so you know, because a company dumps X amount of money into a car doesn't necessarily mean that a) the car is tuned the best it can be or b) that the driver can maximize the car's potential. It's just silly to make a comparison like that because there are far too many variables involved.
And frankly, there are a lot of good drivers on this board.
Nov 9, 2005, 05:45 PM
#68
To get this back on track:
I raced him and beat him by about 2 cars at the top of 3rd. I didn't want to go any further as I started to walk even more. End of next week my Buscur FMIC/10.5 hotside will go on. Should be more fun after that!!
I love the STi's, I mean I owned a WRX for a year, and know a ton about the engine because I literally had ripped mine to the ground. Simply put the EVO is a far better block to start with and accepts mods so much easier. If I put an intake on my WRX with a tune it ran like crap! When I put my Buschur intake on with a reflash (tune) it woke the car up!
I love both cars and have respect for the STi, I just wish I could own both! There are days I want an STi and days I can't live with my EVO.
Both are very good cars and I would only be satisfied if I owned both.
I am going to forward this to a friend who actually does own both and has upgraded turbo's on both cars to get his opinion.
I raced him and beat him by about 2 cars at the top of 3rd. I didn't want to go any further as I started to walk even more. End of next week my Buscur FMIC/10.5 hotside will go on. Should be more fun after that!!
I love the STi's, I mean I owned a WRX for a year, and know a ton about the engine because I literally had ripped mine to the ground. Simply put the EVO is a far better block to start with and accepts mods so much easier. If I put an intake on my WRX with a tune it ran like crap! When I put my Buschur intake on with a reflash (tune) it woke the car up!
I love both cars and have respect for the STi, I just wish I could own both! There are days I want an STi and days I can't live with my EVO.
Both are very good cars and I would only be satisfied if I owned both.
I am going to forward this to a friend who actually does own both and has upgraded turbo's on both cars to get his opinion.
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