EVIL EVO 69

i was wondering what the proper and safest way to install 4 or 5 point harnesses into an evo either with aftermarket seats or stock recaros

mainly with stock recaros, im looking to install takata harnesses on stock leather recaros, but want to do it correctly and safely

im coming from hondas and theve got harness bars you can buy that connect to the seat belt mounts on the pillars, but evo seats sit farther back and it doesnt look like thats possible

thanks

eric

WarmPepsi

iTrader: (35)

yes, sparco makes a harness bar for behind the front seats.

most people here will give you a hell of a time, because of the rollover risk.

Another option, the one i went with for now, is using schroth's, that mount on the rear seat belt holes, and have a clip to disconnect when not in use. (good idea).

4TUN8

iTrader: (18)

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...hlight=harness


https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...hlight=harness


There are a few of the howto's that I've found. Next time use the search feature.

erioshi

I have a set of DOT approved Schroth Rallye 3 (4 point) harnesses installed in my car for both front seats. The bottom belts anchor to the OE seatbelt points and harness back collects into a single belt and anchors to the deck mount for the rear shoulder belts.

The install involved removing the rear seat, seat-back, and deck and everything attached to it, but I'm really happy with the belts. I guess my best endorsement would be "I don't even notice them" when I'm at the track - before them I definitely noticed not having belts - staying in the seat was becomming a problem as I kept improving the car's cornering and braking.

The install even left all the OE seatbelts in place and functional so I don't need to mess with the harnesses around town. I just fold them back when not needed.

trinydex

iTrader: (12)

i don't know why harness bars are becoming so in recently. if you look at most racing videos and most japanese racign videos there's not a bar in site. true some have cages and those bars are in place, but most stil just bolt to the rear seat belt points.

bars are for tall people, so maybe that's why it's not an issue with japanese race cars in japan. if your shoulders are taller than where the belts come through you should run a bar. if not then the seat acts as your bar, pretty unlikely that your seat will snap because it got pulled downward by the harness even for high speed impact. although if anyone has seen data that refutes this i'd like to know.

otherwise... points to consider.

you should be mounting your belts to the lowest point of the bolt, which means you stack your racing belt mounting gear last, so a profile of the bolt will look like: bolt head, stock seatbelt mount, washer, racing belt hardware, into chassis. make sure you're using the longer bolt provided with your harness.

angle the mounting hardware in the right dirction.

if you don't have an H belt you must CROSS the belts so in case of impact you will not slide right through the belts.

all this stuff is most likely well documented in your harness installation instructions. if not visit sparco as they have good instructions.

for a 6 point belt, it's best to tie the antisub belt to the two rear bolts of the seat if you have hte mounting hardware, notice this means the belt is uneven, this doesn't affect buckling up, just means you must adjust the belt accordingly to make it even. if you don't want or don't have the hardware to do that then another option is if you are running an aftermarket base bracket to tie the sub belt (with the appropriate tying method that will not loosen!!!) to the base bracket, this is possible with the rmr bracket but i'm not sure bout sparco and other base brackets.

kekek

iTrader: (22)

trinydex,
FYI, if you mount the harness too low (say the lower rear seatbelt mounting points) you run the risk of spinal compression in an accident. IMHO, this is one of the best reasons to invest in a harness bar. Yes you can mount to the upper deck, which is typical for some of the 4 point harnesses out there.

http://www.gforce.com/products/harne...uldersets.html

look below the pic of the harness for the "harness install" pdf.

EvoIXMR

iTrader: (66)

kekek - Dont they recommend a max of 15 degrees higher and lower than the seat location? I cannot remember - I found that online somewhere

erioshi

I would also not trust the OE seatback to withstand the full load of a real impact. This one of the reasons I won't run a single bar behind the seat. There are real world examples of people who have been killed when thier car went ***-in on a wall and the harness belt snapped thier neck. I also wouldn't trust the seatback for protection against compression. While I've never experienced that, I have seen the Evo seat structure bare, and it's not a real safety seat.

I've had the drivers seat crushed in my Evo; the only reason I didn't end up with broken ribs is that my seating posison is far enough back that the B-pillar saved me. The drivers seat bottom and back were both compressed (and collapsed into the center console) and the driver's door was pushed in roughly a foot. The floorpan was also compressed about 6 inches.

trinydex

iTrader: (12)

if it goes *** in the wall how does it crush your spine? just wondering cuz i can't picture this.

also you guys didn't see what i said... if you are sufficiently short enough then the seat acts as your bar... do you guys see what i'm saying... if your shoulders don't protrude beyond where the belts come in... then you won't get your spin compressed because the seat it holding hte belt up. the belt will not compress the seat.

i also don't see what is unsafe about the factory seat... a seat can't be made out of 20 space frames inside, THAT will kill you, the seat won't give a BIT and it will end up breaking you.

in a side impact collision you can't expect a seat to help you out in any manner, the big problem is the fact that the side of the car is moving inward, nothing to do with the seat. and yes... with a racing seat you're really screwed in this situation cuz you're fixed.

kekek

iTrader: (22)

trinydex,
The spinal compression occurs in a frontal collision. Your body is placing a large forward load on the belts during impact, that load is transferred into your shoulders and then into your spine. This isn't really a consideration when sliding back into a wall.

erioshi is correct too in talking about rear end collisions. If a seat is not built properly or not braced properly there can be a secondary collision between the seat and the bar destroying the seat and injuring its occupant. The primary collision being between the car and whatever it hits.

Fact of the matter is you need to do lots of research to get your safety system right in a car. Especially when "retrofitting" a street car for track duty.

mooreboost

iTrader: (6)

The ONLY way to properly run harnesses is with a fixed back racing seat that accomodates 5+ point harnesses, 5 or 6 point harnesses, a roll bar, SFI padding, and a helmet.

PERIOD.

trinydex

iTrader: (12)

ok no one sees what i'm saying... what is the function of the bar? the function of the bar is to keep the belt at a certain angle... the bar rests ABOVE where the belt slots are, so if you are tall guy... the belt is coming in ABOVE your shoulders. if you are SHORT guy, like me... then the belt is STILL coming down ABOVE your shoulders because your shoulders are NOT above the belt slots. does this make sense? if you are running a seat that will be crushed by belts... you not only have larger problems in a collision... you shouldn't be running that kind of seat at all.

also... me thinks that if you are tight in and your belts are not gonna stretch 16" because you didn't buy ebay belts and you installed everything correctly, then you will not move, because you are tight in. notice how they move very little in wrc crashes, it's cuz they're strapped in properly... without this large exagerated motion in the diagrams... there is even less chance for spinal compression.

i would presumtuously guess that the incedents with people getting their spine crushed were in accidents where catastrophic injury was unavoidable, or they were daily drivers that wore their gear wrong. but this is a very presumtuous thought.

Darwinator

iTrader: (8)

Shut up

CrimsonShadow

iTrader: (6)

why? That is the safest way.

erioshi

I think I understand what you are saying, but the real issue is that the seat back will compress when your body is tossed forward. If the forward motion is strong enough then the the harness holes in the seat can be pulled down far enough to cause injury (spine compression). With a wire frame seat like the OE Evo seat the impact needed to break the seat isn't all that great. The problem doesn't exist with the OE shoulder belts because they anchor to seat base and the B pillar - the "shoulder" portion of the belt never sees downward loading over the shoulders.

With real racing seats (properly mounted) that isn't an issue (just like the problem with harness bars) because the seat back is sold material - not just a wire-frame assembly like the OE Evo seats. There is a huge safety gap between "race-style" and real racing seats.