am i imagining....
Dec 31, 2005, 08:45 AM
#1
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am i imagining....
i'm not sure if i'm just imagining things. i was experimenting, still trying to familiarize my car and refining my driving skills. i was taking this corner a lil too fast, felt a little understreer, i let go of the gas, the more i understeered. same corner, same speed, understeered, accelerate a lil more and my surprise, it took that corner faster and eliminated the understeer. is it just me or the car
Dec 31, 2005, 11:28 AM
#5
Originally Posted by Stephen Fisher
letting off of the gas will reduce the understeer as the weight is transferred to the front of the car.
Dec 31, 2005, 11:52 AM
#7
Thoe99 you are so wrong it hurts. Understeer is when the front tires get all mashedi n while your turning because you ahve all the weight up front- wrong, understeer is the tendency for the car to want to go straight relative to where the wheels are being turned. Also when you gas the car the weight is transfered to the rear of the car, and traction is taken away from the front. The more weight over either end of the car the more grip that end of the car will make. The only time letting off the gas will increase understeer is when you are coming out of a corner and the front wheels do not have enough grip accelerate the car and turn it. When dealing with tire dynamics with racing instructors and what not we talk about friction circles, which is dealing with the fact that our tires can only handle a certain amount of cornering and acceleration/braking forces at a given time. If you are turning and using the lateral grip of the tire, you cannot use as much of the grip for accellerating if you were going straight.
Hope this helped....
Hope this helped....
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Dec 31, 2005, 01:29 PM
#8
How am I wrong? I just explained the feeling of understeer to make it relate easier, so yes, the front tires get all mashed in when you're understeering. Understeer DOES happen around a turn cuz your weight distribution is upfront. Since our cars are weight distributed at 60/40 with the bias upfront, mashing the gas will throw the weight to the back, but not significantly enough as braking/hard turning around a corner will do to the front.
You also mentioned:
The only time letting off the gas will increase understeer is when you are coming out of a corner and the front wheels do not have enough grip accelerate the car and turn it.
So are you saying it is not called understeer when you plow into a corner way too fast, perhaps letting off the gas or braking, and can't make the turn?
You also mentioned:
The only time letting off the gas will increase understeer is when you are coming out of a corner and the front wheels do not have enough grip accelerate the car and turn it.
So are you saying it is not called understeer when you plow into a corner way too fast, perhaps letting off the gas or braking, and can't make the turn?
Last edited by Thoe99; Dec 31, 2005 at 01:32 PM.
Dec 31, 2005, 01:43 PM
#9
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Remember that for most cars, with the engine being in the front, as you get to a corner, all of that weight will not want to change direction. One of Newtons laws explains this , a mass in motion wants to stay in motion in the same direction, unless another force is acting upon it…or something like that ! Hey, I’m a race driver..not a scientist. Anyway, as this mass is over the front tires, you need some weight transfer to help those front tires stick. So lets say you get to a corner…you turn the wheel…but the car isn’t turning as quick as you need. You get afraid like anyone would, and the first thing you do is lift off of the gas. This is good, as by doing that, you are transferring weight to the front tires giving them grip. But lets say you are still scared…so you go to the brake. In doing this you add even more grip to the front tires, and will most likely be correcting your understeer skid.
Dec 31, 2005, 02:11 PM
#11
All I'm pointing out is one example of understeering. Sure yours are correct too, but if you plow into a corner, while turning, you're gonna break traction sometimes, your tires won't be gripping anything cuz only your front tires are really touching the ground and you'll just be grinding straight ahead, which is also understeering.
Dec 31, 2005, 02:13 PM
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Brake then gas, feather the the throttle then once you target the apex power tru.. I find that this works for me, but with the evo stock suspension you will still have understeer I finally found this out the last track event I did.
Make sure you practice in a closed environment.. Dont try to copy initial D and understeer to a guard rail..
Make sure you practice in a closed environment.. Dont try to copy initial D and understeer to a guard rail..
Dec 31, 2005, 02:13 PM
#13
P
Thoe again your wrong. Understeer does not happen around a turn because your weight distribution is up front. Understeer happens because the front tires are being asked to provide more grip than they can. Our car's weight bias has NOTHING to do with what mashing the gas does, If you brake hard in a top fuel dragster the weight still gets transferred to the front even though there weight bias im sure is something like 15/85.
No I am not saying it is not called understeer when your car goes straight while entering a corner, I am pretty sure I defined understeer as the car's tendency to want to go straight relative to the direction you are turning. If you are having trouble making a corner, and find yourself plowing in a straight line the problem is that you are either A. Carrying too much speed, or B. Breaking too hard while turning. Btw I was not saying understeer only happens during corner exit, understeer can happen in any part of a corner, just I find that personally most of the understeer problems I have seen exhibited by my evo tend to be from mid-corner out, I think that most of the turn-in understeer in our cars can be attributed to driving them too hard. Also try to not use terms like "all mashed in", or if you could explain what exactly that means, or possibly its relevance to understeer?
Scorke
p.s.- Understeer can only happen in corners
No I am not saying it is not called understeer when your car goes straight while entering a corner, I am pretty sure I defined understeer as the car's tendency to want to go straight relative to the direction you are turning. If you are having trouble making a corner, and find yourself plowing in a straight line the problem is that you are either A. Carrying too much speed, or B. Breaking too hard while turning. Btw I was not saying understeer only happens during corner exit, understeer can happen in any part of a corner, just I find that personally most of the understeer problems I have seen exhibited by my evo tend to be from mid-corner out, I think that most of the turn-in understeer in our cars can be attributed to driving them too hard. Also try to not use terms like "all mashed in", or if you could explain what exactly that means, or possibly its relevance to understeer?
Scorke
p.s.- Understeer can only happen in corners
Last edited by scorke; Dec 31, 2005 at 02:16 PM. Reason: I cannot spell teh gud
Dec 31, 2005, 02:18 PM
#15
In SushiSamurai's case, he stated clearly, that letting off the gas was increasing his understeer, which most likely means the corner he was taking was a wide arching turn, which also resembles more of a road racing turn. He came into the long turn with too much heat, too fast. Autocross and Road Racing turns (in his case) differentiate here. In road racing, where the track is much more open, you want optimum tire contact at all times to keep grip, rather than lose the grip when you let off the gas and lose your car balance. Haven't you heard the instructors keep drilling it in your head when you were a newbie to keep on the gas around those wide arching turns? If you let off the gas, you wipe out.