ok ppl im askin this question b/c of wat i have read and wat i hear. ppl tell me that a flash plays with time and fuel "in" the ecu. but i read in a mag that the fq400 runs on a motec ecu b/c they need to move fuel and time to make more power and see certin things. when mitsu went to try to get it worked on they said that ralliart had codes to the ecu and said they would not hand them over. so ppl r telling me that dyno flash al can get in and move stuff when mitsu couldnt. i keep thinking that the flash is more like a program that sits on the ecu like my utec or a safc, and it bypasses the ecu and uses the fuel and time set on that program. some one help me answer this question b/c i just really dont think that dyno al can unlock wat ralliart locked and mitsu cant. is the flash a program or is he really gettin inside the ecu?

 

Wow nice spelling/grammar. Anyways, a flash is simply a modification done to the stock engine computer. The Ecu (by default) has an area of memory (on a EPROM) that can be replaced with a different set of instructions (usually in a table format). In short, the new instructions (like the ones AL provides with his flashes) contain a more agresssive ignition timing map, and a leaner fuel curve which results in more horsepower.

 

so hes not really gettin inside of it. he can only do so much

 

sry me no spell so good me can only drive me think

 

+1 i would like to know this too.

 

Does the flash require break any codes on the stock ECU?? On my Celica the codes were never broken so Replacemant ECU was the only way to mess with timing, fuel cut, etc.

 

ne1 is all breakin the codes or not thats wat i really want to know!

 

It's just like reprogramming a computer. How hard is that to understand?

 

Hey Dingo7, where in Georgia are you from? PM me if you get the chance.
If you're anywhere near Atlanta, a good shop to check out is www.dyno4mance.com Give them a call and they'll fix you up.

 

I hope you do not drive. You sound like a caveman

 

A piggyback (like your Utec) only overrides certain settings from the ECU. It lets the ecu handle all the normal stuff for day-to-day driving like electronics and such. It overrides the boost/timing/fuel/spark, etc as instructed.
Then there's the standalone that does it ALL!

 

Well you have to understand how to interface with the computer, and you have to know how to manipulate the existing data format. So in a way, this is like "breaking a code". A few people have discovered how to manipulate the EPROM's data (Al included) and now they are making bank. More than just the ignition timing and fuel curve can be adjusted. For example, you can remove the top speed governor, raise the RPM limiter, etc. Typically, after a car has been out for a while, more and more people learn how to edit the information for a particular ECU, and you will notice the price will go down for cost of a flash (because more and more people know how to do it). Maybe one day someone will release a product to allow you to do your own flashes (they make these for other platforms).

 

I don't know why boomn talked about piggybacks and standalones when the question is about flashes, but yes, caveman, Al has broken the code on both the VIII and IX ECUs.

 

Automotive engine control units (ECUs) have various programmable data regions inside them. These regions are usually write-protected, sometimes with a single bit lock, other times with a complicated combination lock sequence (or as people like to call them, "codes"). Defeating these write-protection schemes is called "unlocking" the ECU or "breaking the codes". It is impossible to overwrite the data contained within the ECU without "unlocking" it, if it does in fact have write-protection enabled.

sonicnofadz was more or less correct, except that the actual instructions (the running application / operating system / whatnot) is not changed in most cases. What DOES change is the data table that the ECU is referencing. Hence why he mentioned that data is commonly downloaded to the ECU in tabular format. By adjusting the values in the tables or "maps", the behavior of the motor is altered when the ECU reads from those tables. Things like long-term and short-term fuel trims are also contained in these data regions, but these areas are both readable and writeable by the ECU, as it can and does adjust these values to suit the style of driving the ECU has experienced. Regions like these (called 'volatile') are oftentimes reset to some default value when the ECU is reset - such as when you pull one of the battery leads.

So to answer your questions... Are the codes "broken"? Apparently so, as there are several tuners offering reflash services these days. But this statement:
"so hes not really gettin inside of it. he can only do so much" is a little misleading. In fact, they are "gettin inside of it", otherwise they'd have no place to put their modified map data. Are they actually changing the instructions that the CPU inside the ECU is executing? I doubt it, but it might possible to do so, at least to some extent. I'm not up on the current capabilities of automotive reflash utilities, though, so you might want to check with Al / Shiv / whoever is doing these things and ask them. But yes, they can only do so much with the tools they have at their disposal.

 

Different types or reflashes address the concept in different manners

My method uses a standard base calibration from a stock ecyu then I use my experience and trial and error to find the maps and learn how to modify them

When I reaload the revised files into the ecu it continues to use oem original operating system

Other reflash platforms use a more generic interpahse and a customized proram loaded on the ecu ship so the tuner can just adjust the parametrs and tune the car without having tio figure out how the ecu works - e.g. Ecutek and Accesport

Both methods realize similar results

The method I use takes more time for the tuner to figure things out but can work very well once you master the maps