Coefficient of advantage foir awd
Jun 16, 2006, 01:37 AM
#1
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Coefficient of advantage foir awd
If you guys provide me with the data, I will do all the calculations and tell you exactly what the coefficient for awd versus rwd is.
Ti start I need
Weight/rwhp/rwtq/average 60t's on street tires/gear ratio/ final drive ratio/
Quarter mile times Trap speeds and rpm.
These are the basics but I can get crazy with this stats using spss... a proram I use for ork. basically it cna take any statistic and compare its significance t another... basically tells you what to test and how much to weigh each value.
Othher uses:
Dofferences between:
Dead stops
5mph rool
25mp
55mph
ect
Also diferences in tires both composite and brand.
In the end it will tell you with greater than .05% certainty how much power yanother car would need to beat you if it had rwd.... not only power but weight, gears, etc ect. also can tell you for certain what kind of matchup your car would be strongest in either dead stop or other depending on the car and its set up. The only two factors I cant fator in are driver error and weather and road conditons. Otherwise, its near perfect.
You guys flam me for not having an evo yet... well at least I am giving back or trying to. I appreciat this site. I just expect respect as well even though I have yet to buy a car that I desperately want. Good news is, the search is 99.9% over and I have found quite possibly the perfect evo for me and my budget... so give me a month and then you can stop whining and start thinkign me for contributing... despite the fact .... well you know by now. I dont have an evo, you dont have a saleen... ok we are even... topic dropped lol.... now lets get down to something more useful than make fun of the new guy who asks funny questions
Ti start I need
Weight/rwhp/rwtq/average 60t's on street tires/gear ratio/ final drive ratio/
Quarter mile times Trap speeds and rpm.
These are the basics but I can get crazy with this stats using spss... a proram I use for ork. basically it cna take any statistic and compare its significance t another... basically tells you what to test and how much to weigh each value.
Othher uses:
Dofferences between:
Dead stops
5mph rool
25mp
55mph
ect
Also diferences in tires both composite and brand.
In the end it will tell you with greater than .05% certainty how much power yanother car would need to beat you if it had rwd.... not only power but weight, gears, etc ect. also can tell you for certain what kind of matchup your car would be strongest in either dead stop or other depending on the car and its set up. The only two factors I cant fator in are driver error and weather and road conditons. Otherwise, its near perfect.
You guys flam me for not having an evo yet... well at least I am giving back or trying to. I appreciat this site. I just expect respect as well even though I have yet to buy a car that I desperately want. Good news is, the search is 99.9% over and I have found quite possibly the perfect evo for me and my budget... so give me a month and then you can stop whining and start thinkign me for contributing... despite the fact .... well you know by now. I dont have an evo, you dont have a saleen... ok we are even... topic dropped lol.... now lets get down to something more useful than make fun of the new guy who asks funny questions
Jun 16, 2006, 01:43 AM
#3
All we ask is that you chill out and not make 100 threads before even having the Evo...and hopefully you won't do it AFTER getting the Evo either.
I personally am not interested in figuring out all these values just so that I know the exact amount of a power a certain RWD car needs to beat me, because in the end, it almost always comes down to driver.
I personally am not interested in figuring out all these values just so that I know the exact amount of a power a certain RWD car needs to beat me, because in the end, it almost always comes down to driver.
Jun 16, 2006, 03:00 AM
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Only make the threads to get informaed. I am buying used because that is what I can afford. I need to know as much as I can, You would d the same if you were sending every dine you had to spare on a car that you had wanted for years.
On another note: its great you arent interested, its just something I know how to do that might be useful for the board... its more about how awd aides traction then who is gonna beat who and the conditions in which it matters or it doesn't. These are things that I like to know about cars, their strengths and weaknesses and why (more for me than for you who have prbably experienced everything). Engineer at heart I guess. Sorry to continue to offend you and dont read my posts if they make u so mad. I was oricrastinating and looking for something fun to do... learn abut cars... specifically the car I currently am going to buy. Knoewledge is ower, without knowledge, it is pointless for me to even attenpt to buy an evo because I will get burned. Bad experiences with cars I didnt do research on beforehand man, just over doing it this time to make sure the little money I do have doesnt get tossed into the wind.
And I promise I will stop posting after I get my evo unless it breaks... that way you dont have to read my threads... 54 btw... not 100...you need 50 to get into the sale sectoin. And Since I want to buy and sell (buy an evo and sell my saleen) it was important to me to get there quick for that purpose.
Might be nice to have alittle support, or does this club require you own an evo before you can ask questions or discuss likes and dislikes of exteriors and other topics. Iam a car enthusiast, I would have no problem with you comming to me for questions about the new mustang if you wanted to buy one. In fact, I would be happy to tell you everything, because I love cars.
I dont want to make another mistake, so I ask everything I can think of so I dont get surprised one day when I find out I should have asked that before I bouth it. If you cant understand that, then you havent been there, so please... just inore my posts or delete then if you chose.
On another note: its great you arent interested, its just something I know how to do that might be useful for the board... its more about how awd aides traction then who is gonna beat who and the conditions in which it matters or it doesn't. These are things that I like to know about cars, their strengths and weaknesses and why (more for me than for you who have prbably experienced everything). Engineer at heart I guess. Sorry to continue to offend you and dont read my posts if they make u so mad. I was oricrastinating and looking for something fun to do... learn abut cars... specifically the car I currently am going to buy. Knoewledge is ower, without knowledge, it is pointless for me to even attenpt to buy an evo because I will get burned. Bad experiences with cars I didnt do research on beforehand man, just over doing it this time to make sure the little money I do have doesnt get tossed into the wind.
And I promise I will stop posting after I get my evo unless it breaks... that way you dont have to read my threads... 54 btw... not 100...you need 50 to get into the sale sectoin. And Since I want to buy and sell (buy an evo and sell my saleen) it was important to me to get there quick for that purpose.
Might be nice to have alittle support, or does this club require you own an evo before you can ask questions or discuss likes and dislikes of exteriors and other topics. Iam a car enthusiast, I would have no problem with you comming to me for questions about the new mustang if you wanted to buy one. In fact, I would be happy to tell you everything, because I love cars.
I dont want to make another mistake, so I ask everything I can think of so I dont get surprised one day when I find out I should have asked that before I bouth it. If you cant understand that, then you havent been there, so please... just inore my posts or delete then if you chose.
Jun 16, 2006, 03:41 AM
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just get the evo and let your butt dyno tell you all that you need to know, but I am interested in the calculation nonetheless since I am a sucker for numbers and values and statistics (propably since I develop code doing all that for the corporate world). Let's see it ;-).
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Jun 16, 2006, 06:33 AM
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As an automotive braking engineer, I have some knowledge in the factors involved in making such a calculation. The problem with your data is going to be such.
#1 You will need exact vehicle weights, and where the CG is on those specific vehicles.
#2 Temperature at times of the runs.
#3 Coefficient of friction of the tires.
#4 Tire diameter
#5 Driver reaction times per shift and launch
#6 Whether or not the clutch is slipping
#7 What is the total shift time ( from point of disengagement to re-engagement)
#8 Conditions of the track (wet, moisture, dry)
As you can see, these are just a few variables I came up with off the top of my head. I think it would be nearly impossible to have a truely valuable "coefficient" that is reliable.
The only way to do this maybe would be to take an EVO VIII AWD and run a quarter mile with a computer that has a timed reaction time and shift time.
Then somehow disengage the rear diff (can't remove the diff. because it changes vehicle CG and weight!) and run the same run using the same computer reaction time and shifts.
Then disengage the front diff and do a run.
This would be as close as you can get. Although by the time youve done this, you may have spent enough money to make your car so fast this coefficient would be irrelevant.
Sure we'd all like to know the difference between AWD and RWD/FWD.
Just enjoy your car and drive it ! heheheheh
#1 You will need exact vehicle weights, and where the CG is on those specific vehicles.
#2 Temperature at times of the runs.
#3 Coefficient of friction of the tires.
#4 Tire diameter
#5 Driver reaction times per shift and launch
#6 Whether or not the clutch is slipping
#7 What is the total shift time ( from point of disengagement to re-engagement)
#8 Conditions of the track (wet, moisture, dry)
As you can see, these are just a few variables I came up with off the top of my head. I think it would be nearly impossible to have a truely valuable "coefficient" that is reliable.
The only way to do this maybe would be to take an EVO VIII AWD and run a quarter mile with a computer that has a timed reaction time and shift time.
Then somehow disengage the rear diff (can't remove the diff. because it changes vehicle CG and weight!) and run the same run using the same computer reaction time and shifts.
Then disengage the front diff and do a run.
This would be as close as you can get. Although by the time youve done this, you may have spent enough money to make your car so fast this coefficient would be irrelevant.
Sure we'd all like to know the difference between AWD and RWD/FWD.
Just enjoy your car and drive it ! heheheheh
Jun 16, 2006, 11:09 AM
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sorry i was drunk and mad that i didnt have my evo yet when i posted this... plus I am a horrible typer at all tmes.... nothing to do with spelling.... hense the law school where i dictate my papers to cute girls in short skirts.... felt like crud because I went from being a guru on my last site to a idiot on this site... darn learning curve... once I get an evo ill be tooo busy driving it to post anymore anyways... so root for me to get one and hope to god the guy pays me today for the saleen and then we all can shut up and drive... how it should be!!!!!!
Jun 16, 2006, 11:34 AM
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btw you missed some calcs also... temp of tires and track temps, wind speed, relative humidity at time of run, drag coefficient for the car, blah b;ah blah.... yes I agree it is impossible... but fun to try.... only way to do it would be to have the 3 of exact same cars with the exact same driver, driven under the exact same conditions (tires, weather, track conditions, wind speed and direction, gas... literally the SAME GAS not even the same kind but from the exact same barrel, ), with everything being equal but the type of drive (r,f,a).... it could be done in a computer simulation on a million dollar computer... would be fun... check out how they did it in motor trend with the shelby and the camcapo that hasnt even come out yet (concept)... they virtually raced all three models in every test.... funny part is... they were almost exactly right with everything with the shelby cobra and this was before it ever had hit the street (not even a mule)... so it could be done and would be fun, but now the dream is done... I will run the tests anyways... so sue me 
Jun 16, 2006, 12:59 PM
#11
Theoretically, AWD has the best advantage in drag racing (more traction than RWD) however in reality it usually weighs more (depending on who designed the drivetrain and with what materials were used) and it breaks all the time 
The only reason RWD is a more popular platform is because it is reliable, and inexpensive to repair. If someone designed lightweight (i.e. rail car) with a super lightweight all wheel drive system with 4 12 inch wide slicks on each wheel, it would be the most devastating drag car ever invented (if it didn't break).
The only reason RWD is a more popular platform is because it is reliable, and inexpensive to repair. If someone designed lightweight (i.e. rail car) with a super lightweight all wheel drive system with 4 12 inch wide slicks on each wheel, it would be the most devastating drag car ever invented (if it didn't break).
Jun 16, 2006, 02:03 PM
#12
Originally Posted by sonicnofadz
Theoretically, AWD has the best advantage in drag racing (more traction than RWD) however in reality it usually weighs more (depending on who designed the drivetrain and with what materials were used) and it breaks all the time The only reason RWD is a more popular platform is because it is reliable, and inexpensive to repair. If someone designed lightweight (i.e. rail car) with a super lightweight all wheel drive system with 4 12 inch wide slicks on each wheel, it would be the most devastating drag car ever invented (if it didn't break).
The only reason RWD is a more popular platform is because it is reliable, and inexpensive to repair. If someone designed lightweight (i.e. rail car) with a super lightweight all wheel drive system with 4 12 inch wide slicks on each wheel, it would be the most devastating drag car ever invented (if it didn't break).Last edited by honda-guy; Jun 16, 2006 at 02:06 PM.
Jun 16, 2006, 02:17 PM
#13
Ummm...yes. Two words-wheelie bar. 8000 HP going to only two wheels is a waste.
Originally Posted by honda-guy
weight transfer, awd doesn't help you if the front wheels are up in the air. do you think a top fuel dragster would be faster if it had awd? if they can manage to put 8000+ hp to the ground using just the 2 rear tires, why add the
weight and power robbing of an awd system.
weight and power robbing of an awd system.
Last edited by sonicnofadz; Jun 16, 2006 at 03:08 PM.