Nice! Could you post some pics from the back...I don't really understad what you're saying about how it can be taken off easily for rear passengers...then would you just use your regular seat belt? Sorry if I missed something

 

See the little buckle on where the harness strap splits into two and go through the seat holes? That is a quick release buckle which separates the rear section of the harness assembly. The rear section can then be easily tucked into the crack between the rear seat and the rear seat back.

I'll take another photo when i get home.

 

Any 4 point is a compromise. I think that's what Kevin and the others in this thread are trying to state. The extra flap will not allow you to move out of the way should the car roll over, it's to help prevent submarining by allowing your torso to turn slighty during an impact. I do HPDE tech for NASA, and will not "OK" a 4 point harness. I will tell the driver that the stock 3 point belts are fine and the 4 points are not. What he chooses to use is up to him.

That being said, if you are OK with the potential risk versus the ease of use/cost/etc., then have at it. Schroth makes some of the most well engineered belts in the world, with the testing to back them up. But that doesn't erase the inherent dangers with running 4 point harnesses on the street - it only minimizes them. The chance of a rollover on the street or in an auto-x is pretty slim, so do what you feel comfoartable with. I think the 4 point is great for auto-x, but definately not on the street and absolutely not on the track.

There are plenty of people that have run this same type of setup for years with no trouble. I however don't want to chance going halfway on safety equipment. On the street I use the stock harnesses, and on the track I'll use a rollbar and 6 point belts.

 

I am just telling you from what I read and from experience. Check this picture out. This Mustang rolled over in a NASA HPDE event a while back. The track was Willow Springs and it has a fast long right turn called Rabbit's Ear or turn two. It was driven by a newbie with an instructor riding shotgun. See how the roof collaped, but the driver and the passenger did not die or get bady hurt. Just cuts and bruises. Do you know why? There was no harness restraining them to the seat and both were able to get out of the way of the collapsing roof. I know the instructor and I talked to him about what happened.

Go ahead and use your harness on your daily driver w/o a roll cage. I wish you the best of luck.

 

I'm going to run this photo by my manager who IS a NASA instructor.

Personally, i HIGHLY doubt your story about the passengers, especially thd driver "only getting mild injuries". I came upon a car which rolled just like that on the 5 freeway and both people inside were dead.

If those guys only got mild injuries, they were probably some of the luckiest people on earth.

 

The name of the instructor who was riding in the car is Paul Godutti. IIRC, the rollover happened in the August 2001 NASA event. Both of the driver and the passanger survived since they were able to evade the collapsing roof. Neither the driver nor the passanger were using a harness.

 

Thanks for giving solid advice to HPDErs. I make it a point when I instruct to not use the harness on the car if the car does not have a cage. I use the stock belt instead. If the car does not have a stock belt and runs a harness w/o a rollbar or cage, then I do not instruct the driver of that car.

I have been hotlapping/racing since April 2000 and I have seen a lot to make me NOT use a harness w/o a rollbar/rollcage.

Most people who use a harness on the street either do not know about the danger involved or know the danger and are going for the bling-bling factor.

 

You're right my friend. I asked my boss Mark Carrillo who knows who Paul Godutti is and he said this accident did happen at Willow springs on the big track, not the street track which is much slower. Mark said the harnesses I got are NOT to be used on a high speed track no matter what. But doing auto-x, some canyon runs, and slower tracks like the Streets of Willow are ok BUT ONLY if the cars seat back is rigid enough to help protect you in a roll over. There is risk with my setup if there is a roll over, but the benefits of the harnesses in just about every other aspect balance things out. (better control, etc)

He also said that you shouln't be driving on any high speed track without full cage, full race seats, 6 points, etc.

 

The seat backs also have to be higher than the top of your helmeted head, in addition to being rigid enough to hold up the weight of the car or they won't help. Glad to see we're all on the same page now at any rate. There is a TON of misinformation out there on this subject.

 

I agree with you guys that's why I would never use these on the street, (that's why I posted those pics to show that it's so easy to wrap them in back and out of the way for daily driving) and why I am going to be installing a rollbar. If I were going to do anything other than lapping events, HPDE's and autox then a full cage would go in along with 6 point harnesses.

 

What is your impression of CG locks?

 

The only events i'm ever planning on doing with this car are auto-x, HPDE, and maybe some canyon runs.

Other than that, a friend and I are saving up money to buy an Ariel Atom. Yes.... the vehicle that can almost take out an Enzo.

Its either all or nothing when it comes to stuff like this. My boss knows of that wreck and was blown away that nobody was killed even with regular 3 points.

Personally, i think its just plain idiotic to drive on any HIGH SPEED tracks without a full cage, 6 points, etc. I'm all about slower, technical courses. And i don't drive over my head and have spent quite a few years doing HPDE courses.

 

What do you mean I am NOTORIOUS for not reading posts? Well you have a point there. I usually dont read the whole post. I was concerned about your saftey, and you are more concerned about WHO YOU KNOW, and what they told you. My bad, go out and break something, and post back typing with a straw in your mouth, that maybe we were right in posting the "potential" dangers of something you have. tool.

 

Damn Kevin....

 

Why do you have to say things like this right when I am planning to do two days at Big Willow?