Finally decided on a 4 point harness! Pic installed!
Jun 25, 2006, 02:12 AM
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Finally decided on a 4 point harness! Pic installed!
Well after weighing in all the factors of choosing a harness such as build quality, cams/buckles, risks of submarining, comfort, and most of all, safety.... I decided to go with a Schroth Rally 4 in black. It bolts in using the factory front seat belt points and retains the 3 point system which was a nice plus. The harness kit is 2.5" wide and built very well. The buckles are easy to adjust and the nice pad at your waist line is great. Just behind the drivess seat here the straps connect to a relese latch so you can stow them and allow a passenger to sit in the back. There is also a special little mechanism which i think only Schroth usses which allows one shoulde strap to loosen a tiny bt upon a large impact, allowing your upper body to travel foward a little and prevent your bodies momentum from "submarining" under the lap belt, causing serious injuries to your internal organs and possible death. This ASM system is what makes these safety harnesses DOT legal too!
I took my car out to some local canyon roads today to see ho much the extra support helped out and was astounded. I just ordered a second harness for my passenger seat i love these so much.
http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/s...t-legal/rallye
I took my car out to some local canyon roads today to see ho much the extra support helped out and was astounded. I just ordered a second harness for my passenger seat i love these so much.
http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/s...t-legal/rallye
Jun 25, 2006, 02:21 AM
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i have the same type of harnesses its an awesome product especially how you can use your stock belts and let passengers sit in the back but just a release buckle.
Jun 25, 2006, 08:51 AM
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ROFL. I had a cop pull up next to me this morning because he saw through my back window that my 3 point seat belt was not being used. when he was about to pull me over, i grabbed one strap with my thumb and pulled it away from my chest a tiny bit (because a tiny bit is all it moves) and he said 4 points are illegal. So after a little talk i explained that mine DOT approved due to anti-submarine tech which i've never seen another brand of 4 point that have such a thing.
So after the cop learned a thing or two from me, he was actually grateful and then said that belts like this should be mandatory in all new cars because of all the lives they would save. Especially in econo-box cars like my Evo which is a ** out of ***** in crash testing.
So after the cop learned a thing or two from me, he was actually grateful and then said that belts like this should be mandatory in all new cars because of all the lives they would save. Especially in econo-box cars like my Evo which is a ** out of ***** in crash testing.
Jun 25, 2006, 09:00 AM
#5
I have the 4 points also, but will get the 5 point, to save my butt in a crash. dont want to be in those in a crash, you will submarine under those, and lacerate your liver, and other issues, which will kill you where the stock ones wouldn't. just beware, and be careful. They look nice though.
Jun 25, 2006, 09:30 AM
#7
Originally Posted by smokedmustang
I have the 4 points also, but will get the 5 point, to save my butt in a crash. dont want to be in those in a crash, you will submarine under those, and lacerate your liver, and other issues, which will kill you where the stock ones wouldn't. just beware, and be careful. They look nice though.
How will this happen..
I thought this harness has an 'anti-submarining' design, and is dot approved as well
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Jun 25, 2006, 10:35 AM
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Absolutely Not flaming the OP but 4 points are not a choice I'd consider. For me 5 point or 6 only and Never on a Daily Driver and if on a track car, at least a minimum of a racing shell and quality 4 point rollbar as well as the 5 point harness.
The NASA HPDE's I participate in do not allow 4 points on track. I can understand a 4 point possibly for autocross only but I've seen too many incidents on track including rollovers where a 4 point could have been or was dangerous.
When you start messing with safety systems you need to consider all parts as a piece of the whole safety system. Many times it's safer to keep it stock than go half assing and messing with how the system was designed to work originally.
Just IMHO
The NASA HPDE's I participate in do not allow 4 points on track. I can understand a 4 point possibly for autocross only but I've seen too many incidents on track including rollovers where a 4 point could have been or was dangerous.
When you start messing with safety systems you need to consider all parts as a piece of the whole safety system. Many times it's safer to keep it stock than go half assing and messing with how the system was designed to work originally.
Just IMHO
Jun 25, 2006, 11:01 AM
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I've been using the Schroth Rally 4's for a few years now. They work really well, but the angle that the back strap has is too steep. Mr Chef is right, they aren't legal for racing events, but I've been to over a dozen HPDE's and have not had a problem using them. They are perfect for autoX as well.
I wrap the belts behind the seats for street use and put the back straps under the back seats so they are out of sight, and out of the way
I wrap the belts behind the seats for street use and put the back straps under the back seats so they are out of sight, and out of the way
Jun 25, 2006, 11:07 AM
#10
I used mine at an HPDE ONCE also. the DOT doesn't mean squat to me!! Look at the design. If you hit something with the front of the car, YOU are going to submarine out from under the belt, probably half-way! So the compressive loads on the ribcage/internal organs will be so much, you will lacerate/rip/tear something, (aotric arch/liver/spleen/pancreas, etc...) which sadly enough, could be fatal. If you use them at the track with "No problem", thats because you werent in a crash and had to test the scenario I mentioned. They look good on the seats at a car-show, but could end up putting you on a feeding tube or in a wheelchair, should the time arise you get in a wreck. I am just pointing out my opinions. dont let me scare you away from using them, just keep this in mind. I dont know if you can "retrofit" one to go from your crotch, to the floor in front of the seat, but this will prevent the Submarineing.
Jun 26, 2006, 04:44 AM
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I have those same harnesses in my car. I love them as well -- help a lot for autox and spirited driving.
On another note, the local police don't seem to mind either. I was pumping some gas and a police officer was behind me. He started speaking about the car and he noticed the harnesses -- he has a 4pt in his car as well.
On another note, the local police don't seem to mind either. I was pumping some gas and a police officer was behind me. He started speaking about the car and he noticed the harnesses -- he has a 4pt in his car as well.
Jun 26, 2006, 08:48 AM
#13
It is extremely dangerous to run a 4-5-6 point harness on a daily driver. If your car rolls over and the roof caves in and you are strapped in a 4-5-6 point, then you cannot escape the collapsing roof and your neck will snap and you will either die or become a quadraplegic.
I understand having a harness in a race car with a roll cage since the cage can reduce/eliminate the likelihood of a collapsing roof in case of a roll over. I also understand having a harness and only using it when you are on the track, but driving daily while strapped with a harness is just asking for it.
I understand having a harness in a race car with a roll cage since the cage can reduce/eliminate the likelihood of a collapsing roof in case of a roll over. I also understand having a harness and only using it when you are on the track, but driving daily while strapped with a harness is just asking for it.
Jun 26, 2006, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by smokedmustang
I have the 4 points also, but will get the 5 point, to save my butt in a crash. dont want to be in those in a crash, you will submarine under those, and lacerate your liver, and other issues, which will kill you where the stock ones wouldn't. just beware, and be careful. They look nice though.
These harnesses are perfectly fine for daily street use, spirited canyon driving, auto-x, and HPDE events. I don't need anything more than that considering i'm not about to go out and race my Evo competitively. If i wanted to do that, i'd build a car dedicated to racing. Or buy an Ariel Atom.
Here, I'lll quote it for you:
The Schroth Rallye 4 is the de facto standard for anyone looking for a simple, clean, DOT-approved and Safe 4 point harness. The technology built into the harness puts it in a category above the belts made by other manufacturers. The years of testing and motorsport experience only give credit to what the engineers have been saying all along.
There are two main reasons why the Schroth Belts are the only safe 4 point harnesses: ASM technology and the ability to install the belts to stock harness mounting locations.
ASM stands for Anti-SubMarining. It's an extra flap of material sewn into the inboard shoulder belt that prevents you from sliding underneath the lap belt. In a 4 point harness made by some other company, the two shoulder straps restrain your upper body equally. They keep your chest from moving forward. However, this also pulls up on the lap belt and allows your accellerating pelvis to slide under the lap belt and cause serious damage to your stomach and intestines. With ASM, one of the shoulder belts will elongate at a different rate which will force your pelvis down into the seat cushion. Upon rebound, you will be placed back in an upright position with the belt correctly placed over your body.
The advantages of being able to mount an aftermarket 4 point harness to stock mounting locations are many. First and foremost is the knowledge that these points have been load tested. This means that the manufacturer of your vehicle engineered the points to be able to withstand some truly amazing forces for a specified length of time. In plain English this means that the bolts won't pull out of the sheet metal.
It also means (in the case of a Schroth Harness) that you can retain the use of your stock 3-point harness, allowing you the use of the backseat of your car. If you have the need to transport passengers (or cargo) in your backseat, it is possible to disconnect the tailstrap (a feature only Schroth has) and use your normal 3 point harness.
These belts are perfect for Driver's Schools, Autocrosses and canyon runs with your local car club. They offer a comfortable and stylish harness that will hold you in your seat during spirited driving, as well as a restraint that will perform ahead of the competition in an impact. This belt will work perfectly for someone driving a vehicle that is on the vehicle reference list, as it is critical to test the seat back strength in order to make sure the seat can withstand the forces exerted upon it.
Available in Black, Blue, Red & Silver.
There are two main reasons why the Schroth Belts are the only safe 4 point harnesses: ASM technology and the ability to install the belts to stock harness mounting locations.
ASM stands for Anti-SubMarining. It's an extra flap of material sewn into the inboard shoulder belt that prevents you from sliding underneath the lap belt. In a 4 point harness made by some other company, the two shoulder straps restrain your upper body equally. They keep your chest from moving forward. However, this also pulls up on the lap belt and allows your accellerating pelvis to slide under the lap belt and cause serious damage to your stomach and intestines. With ASM, one of the shoulder belts will elongate at a different rate which will force your pelvis down into the seat cushion. Upon rebound, you will be placed back in an upright position with the belt correctly placed over your body.
The advantages of being able to mount an aftermarket 4 point harness to stock mounting locations are many. First and foremost is the knowledge that these points have been load tested. This means that the manufacturer of your vehicle engineered the points to be able to withstand some truly amazing forces for a specified length of time. In plain English this means that the bolts won't pull out of the sheet metal.
It also means (in the case of a Schroth Harness) that you can retain the use of your stock 3-point harness, allowing you the use of the backseat of your car. If you have the need to transport passengers (or cargo) in your backseat, it is possible to disconnect the tailstrap (a feature only Schroth has) and use your normal 3 point harness.
These belts are perfect for Driver's Schools, Autocrosses and canyon runs with your local car club. They offer a comfortable and stylish harness that will hold you in your seat during spirited driving, as well as a restraint that will perform ahead of the competition in an impact. This belt will work perfectly for someone driving a vehicle that is on the vehicle reference list, as it is critical to test the seat back strength in order to make sure the seat can withstand the forces exerted upon it.
Available in Black, Blue, Red & Silver.
I have those same harnesses in my car. I love them as well -- help a lot for autox and spirited driving.
On another note, the local police don't seem to mind either. I was pumping some gas and a police officer was behind me. He started speaking about the car and he noticed the harnesses -- he has a 4pt in his car as well
On another note, the local police don't seem to mind either. I was pumping some gas and a police officer was behind me. He started speaking about the car and he noticed the harnesses -- he has a 4pt in his car as well
Jun 26, 2006, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by nj1266
It is extremely dangerous to run a 4-5-6 point harness on a daily driver. If your car rolls over and the roof caves in and you are strapped in a 4-5-6 point, then you cannot escape the collapsing roof and your neck will snap and you will either die or become a quadraplegic.
I understand having a harness in a race car with a roll cage since the cage can reduce/eliminate the likelihood of a collapsing roof in case of a roll over. I also understand having a harness and only using it when you are on the track, but driving daily while strapped with a harness is just asking for it.
I understand having a harness in a race car with a roll cage since the cage can reduce/eliminate the likelihood of a collapsing roof in case of a roll over. I also understand having a harness and only using it when you are on the track, but driving daily while strapped with a harness is just asking for it.
I take it you didn't read the part which mentions that the rear portion of the harness has a flap of material which is designed to loosen under hard impact or roll over and enables your body to actually move instead of being forced straight up.