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improving 1st gear torque

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Old Sep 2, 2006 | 11:08 PM
  #31  
evoLuzN's Avatar
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From: Mont Co, MD
HKS 264 cams + HKS hi-power catback, try that
Old Sep 2, 2006 | 11:58 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by SinisterEVO
Is there a way to get the turbo to spool earlier in 1st gear without having to mash the pedal? It seems when I’m in 1st gear I have to push it hard to get it moving, but in 2nd gear and higher, you can feel the torque kick in without having to mash the pedal. Is there a way to improve the pull in 1st gear? Or get the torque to kick in earlier without having to mash the pedal?
In a way this is gonna be dumb.....'cause I'm dumb. If you wanna have better response from your turbo in first gear, you're either gonna have to get a faster spooling turbo, like a titanium wheeled TME 6.5, or a magnesium wheeled JDM IX turbo, instead of your relatively lethargic USDM IX turbo, or launch that Evo...that is, build boost........

.......Otherwise your engine is just gonna rev faster than your turbo can spool-up in 1st gear. Because of the relatively short , compound nature of 1st gear and the quick revving MIVEC setup on your IX with the relatively laggy, topend oriented IX turbo, by the time your turbo gets into its sweet spot you're gonna be grabbing 2nd gear.

This is probably one of the reasons the factory went to such lengths to design the JDM IX turbo with lightweight internals. It's also the reason why the TME 6.5 turbo is preferred by many autocrossers, and also it is the reason why our British cousins love the ballbearing conversions of the 16g with lightweight metal internals for their hillclimbing and tarmac rally events.

Last edited by sparky; Sep 3, 2006 at 09:06 AM.
Old Sep 3, 2006 | 08:35 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Schuyler
. . . how is pressure created in a turbo? . . . See there is a fixed volume - the turbine housing volume - thus the only way to make more air go through it is to compress it (not likely, maybe slightly compressed but that creates BACK PRESSURE) or move it at a higher velocity. Stupid physics.

So tell me - how closed is your wastegate in 1st gear? Oh - you don't know? Maybe you should check because - surprise - that's controlled by the ECU.

I guess you're right though - I don't know crap about these. Maybe you can help me learn some more.
I will try to help you learn more, but it is probably a lost cause. You've already made up your mind that you are right and no matter what I say I doubt that you will change your mind.

Your "theory" was rebutted/explained already, then you said you were trying to make things "simple". The problem is, this is not a simple equasion. I agree that "boost" is made by air flowing across the turbine wheel. Hotter, faster, denser air all probably make the wheel spin faster. More load on the engine creates more flow. More flow creates a potential for more PSI of boost.

If you look at a PSI vs. RPM graph from a car (stock turbo) running through 1st gear vs 5th gear, you may notice something like this:

RPM______1st Gear_____5th Gear
2500_____3psi_________10psi
3000_____9psi_________20psi
3500_____15psi________22psi
4000_____20psi________22psi
5000_____20psi________22psi
6000_____20psi________21psi
7000_____18psi________20psi

This is just an example. There are a few people who have posted logs like this on the forums. This describes what the OP asked about. This is why the boost seems more "laggy" in 1st gear - not enough load on the engine to flow enough air to spool the turbo.

And BTW, my wastegate and that of about 1/2 of the members on this forum is NOT controlled by the ECU. It is controlled by either a manual or electronic boost controller that runs directly off of a pressure input. It has no idea what gear or RPM you are at.

EVOlutionary
Old Sep 3, 2006 | 09:03 AM
  #34  
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Get a Bigger Turbo !
Old Sep 3, 2006 | 11:34 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by EVOlutionary
I will try to help you learn more, but it is probably a lost cause. You've already made up your mind that you are right and no matter what I say I doubt that you will change your mind.

Your "theory" was rebutted/explained already, then you said you were trying to make things "simple". The problem is, this is not a simple equasion. I agree that "boost" is made by air flowing across the turbine wheel. Hotter, faster, denser air all probably make the wheel spin faster. More load on the engine creates more flow. More flow creates a potential for more PSI of boost.

If you look at a PSI vs. RPM graph from a car (stock turbo) running through 1st gear vs 5th gear, you may notice something like this:

RPM______1st Gear_____5th Gear
2500_____3psi_________10psi
3000_____9psi_________20psi
3500_____15psi________22psi
4000_____20psi________22psi
5000_____20psi________22psi
6000_____20psi________21psi
7000_____18psi________20psi

This is just an example. There are a few people who have posted logs like this on the forums. This describes what the OP asked about. This is why the boost seems more "laggy" in 1st gear - not enough load on the engine to flow enough air to spool the turbo.

And BTW, my wastegate and that of about 1/2 of the members on this forum is NOT controlled by the ECU. It is controlled by either a manual or electronic boost controller that runs directly off of a pressure input. It has no idea what gear or RPM you are at.

EVOlutionary
Parasitic loss is relatively constant for a given design - and of course it's much lower in a turbo then a supercharger for obvious reasons.

I simplified it because most of the "variables" you state are also relatively constant. I dunno about you, but I was taught to simplify when possible - the KISS principle if you will. I'd like to hear you explain how you feel load creates additional exhaust flow/velocity.

However...

This really has nothing to do with the topic so I'll KISS and bow out.

Last edited by Schuyler; Sep 3, 2006 at 11:37 AM.




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