No 02 Dump in the market?
#421
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From: Cut throat, Orlando
14 WHP...I'm speechless! I guess I better start counting up my money. I'd like to get one soon, but I may be forced to buy one a little further down the road. Maybe this'll take me to 340+ WHP on a dynojet, but I won't know until I get one. Very exciting! Thanks for the big update! We all appreciate it.
I'll like to see just how much I can get out of it..
#425
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https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...2&postcount=20
I'll make a few notes here ...
DB found 13 hp, not 15. He also ran more boost with the O2 housing in place and could not back it down for a solid comparison. What he says about not seeing knock with the increased boost backs up what Street Tuners said about more room to tune.
EDIT: Also, the 13 hp noted includes gains from the Full Race header that was still installed, which made 2+ hp over the stock, ported manifold used in the baseline.
I'll make a few notes here ...
DB found 13 hp, not 15. He also ran more boost with the O2 housing in place and could not back it down for a solid comparison. What he says about not seeing knock with the increased boost backs up what Street Tuners said about more room to tune.
EDIT: Also, the 13 hp noted includes gains from the Full Race header that was still installed, which made 2+ hp over the stock, ported manifold used in the baseline.
Last edited by TouringBubble; Apr 17, 2008 at 01:50 PM.
#426
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From: In the Shop in Alabama
Our comparison was dependant on a solid baseline pull. We have tried to be as honest about this as is possible, Im not going to quible about what other shops did. We ran the same boost, basicly the same parameters as our baseline pull.
We are in this process for the long run to hold a good reputation as is possible in this business. We've worked very hard on this and have tried different avenues that did Not play out for us. That is why we are on proto #4, when we realized our goals. But it took a while and lots of trial and error. Our first proto showed small gains, we ditched it in favor of a different design. This is documented in our postings.
We'll have those sound/video clips for you as soon as we can. I think you all will hear the power...lol...
We are in this process for the long run to hold a good reputation as is possible in this business. We've worked very hard on this and have tried different avenues that did Not play out for us. That is why we are on proto #4, when we realized our goals. But it took a while and lots of trial and error. Our first proto showed small gains, we ditched it in favor of a different design. This is documented in our postings.
We'll have those sound/video clips for you as soon as we can. I think you all will hear the power...lol...
#431
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David tested the O2 on a highly tuned vehicle that was pretty much running at full potential (as he states in the post) and made 13 whp with the O2 and the Full Race header. From what I gathered from the rest of that thread, the O2 housing only made 10-11 whp at 23psi with the Buschur ported and coated manifold that was used in the baseline.
Now, David didn't specifically tune for the O2 housing. He only made sure that AFR was the same. He didn't touch the timing. I can't say how much more power he could have tuned out of it, but I've got a feeling that the extra psi he recorded was very close to the limit of tuning potential.
Street Tuners is running a completely stock manifold as seen in the photos he posted. I think that the dump tube would have more potential for power with a better flowing manifold and would even have a little more room for tuning with a manifold installed as well.
Street Tuners is also running ~24psi (tapering to ~20.5psi @ 7300) and boost was consistent from the baseline (as recorded in the ECU 2-byte Load% values). Timing was added to the tune of 1º to 2º in some areas of the rev band, which may or may not be comparable to the 1psi to 2psi that was added in David's test. I have no way to know.
I know some of this is speculation, but comparing to David's test as TTP has done isn't really an apples to apples comparison. Both parts make power. It seems that the O2 dump has slightly more potential for power than the recirculating dump, which makes sense. I'm sure we can all agree that one test is not the end-all be-all of product results.
Now, let me draw attention to something I see in the results ...
Notice where the largest gains are ... from about 4000 to 6300 or so. This is the area of the rev band where turbine RPM really begins to climb and the wastegate needs to vent the most to regulate boost. These results really do show why this part makes power. When the wastegate vents it no longer introduces turbulence in to the exhaust flow.
Gains taper off toward 7000 RPM as exhaust flow through the wastegate drops as it closes in attempt to hold more boost. This makes sense as there would be little turbulence at this RPM since the wastegate is mostly closed.
That said, it seems logical to me that the greater the exhaust flow, the more benefit this part will give over the recirculated O2 housing. I can see this part being a great bolt on for the Green or other stock replacement turbo.
Last edited by TouringBubble; Apr 18, 2008 at 09:04 AM.
#433
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The higher the rpms, the LESS the wastegate needs to vent with a small turbo running out of flow.
David's testing was done on one of the LOWEST READING Mustang Dyno AWD500 units in the country.
David did not use some freeware program to ESTIMATE Dynojet type numbers.
You want to test it directly against the DB testing, I urge you to obtain your results on a real dyno.
Unfortunately BR did not test the trapspeed of the tubular unit at the strip, otherwise it would also be a good indicator of performance.
David's testing was done on one of the LOWEST READING Mustang Dyno AWD500 units in the country.
David did not use some freeware program to ESTIMATE Dynojet type numbers.
You want to test it directly against the DB testing, I urge you to obtain your results on a real dyno.
Unfortunately BR did not test the trapspeed of the tubular unit at the strip, otherwise it would also be a good indicator of performance.
#434
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From: Nashville, TN
I am a big believer in trap speeds being the best indicator of real power.
I'd imagine as soon as these units go for sale, and people start installing them, we will see both dyno sheets and traps of their results. I'm certain I'll be hitting the local dyno if/when I get one.
Let me ask this for comparison: how well did DSMs do with open O2 dumps? Was it no more effective than a regular O2 housing or were the gains something to really rave about? I'll have to ask my DSM buddy next time he's around.
I'd imagine as soon as these units go for sale, and people start installing them, we will see both dyno sheets and traps of their results. I'm certain I'll be hitting the local dyno if/when I get one.
Let me ask this for comparison: how well did DSMs do with open O2 dumps? Was it no more effective than a regular O2 housing or were the gains something to really rave about? I'll have to ask my DSM buddy next time he's around.
Last edited by Burklow; Apr 18, 2008 at 09:20 AM.
#435
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I agree.
Last edited by TouringBubble; Apr 18, 2008 at 09:29 AM.