bad news on evo seven for us
May 13, 2002, 08:08 AM
#32
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My thoughts on this thread so far...
If Mitsubishi significantly drops the boost down on the EVO VII there will be a reason behind it. Mitsubishi will not drop the boost/HP just for the hell of it. I think Mitsubishi will consider 2 factors when setting the boost level of the car.
US fuel octane (91)
IC size
An intercooler mounted in front of the front wheel is NOT a front mounted intercooler. It is a SMIC.
Trying to raise the boost on a car with out increasing the IC size or fuel octane will give limited results. The factory builds in a margin of error. You can always squeeze a couple of extra psi out of a stock setup. Things will go to hell in a hurry on a hot day.
Yes, there have been other US performance cars with FMIC's.
SAAB's, come to mind...
And even Mitsubishi has sold cars in the US with a FMIC...
the Starion!
The question people should be asking themselves is...
If Mitsubishi lowers the boost, what other changes will they make?
Injectors, ECU code, precats, ODBII, noise, etc
Hey the stock 2G Eclipse makes 200 hp. If I add a boost controller I will get 280 hp!!! NOT!
If Mitsubishi significantly drops the boost down on the EVO VII there will be a reason behind it. Mitsubishi will not drop the boost/HP just for the hell of it. I think Mitsubishi will consider 2 factors when setting the boost level of the car.
US fuel octane (91)
IC size
An intercooler mounted in front of the front wheel is NOT a front mounted intercooler. It is a SMIC.
Trying to raise the boost on a car with out increasing the IC size or fuel octane will give limited results. The factory builds in a margin of error. You can always squeeze a couple of extra psi out of a stock setup. Things will go to hell in a hurry on a hot day.
Yes, there have been other US performance cars with FMIC's.
SAAB's, come to mind...
And even Mitsubishi has sold cars in the US with a FMIC...
the Starion!
The question people should be asking themselves is...
If Mitsubishi lowers the boost, what other changes will they make?
Injectors, ECU code, precats, ODBII, noise, etc
Hey the stock 2G Eclipse makes 200 hp. If I add a boost controller I will get 280 hp!!! NOT!
May 13, 2002, 08:23 AM
#33
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My point was that intercooler efficiency is not a product of it being placed in either the front or the side of the car, it is the size. For the most part the T/E/L stock I/C's are still very forward with nothing blocking them. Case in point: The US Galant VR4's came with a very small I/C contraption in the front of radiator. It is VERY inefficient compared to the "sidemount" T/E/L intercoolers.
About increasing the HP by 80...I was under the assumption that the car would be coming over with a Mitsu turbo that, if not a Big 16G, was still something not that far down. With a decent sized mitsu turbo (even the 14b in the 1G's), a Boost controller, and some creative (cheap or free)intake and exhaust work, you could get close to 80 HP. I stand by that. I may have slightly exaggerated, but only slightly. And yes, I was assuming this would be on high octane gas. Why wouldn't I?
About increasing the HP by 80...I was under the assumption that the car would be coming over with a Mitsu turbo that, if not a Big 16G, was still something not that far down. With a decent sized mitsu turbo (even the 14b in the 1G's), a Boost controller, and some creative (cheap or free)intake and exhaust work, you could get close to 80 HP. I stand by that. I may have slightly exaggerated, but only slightly. And yes, I was assuming this would be on high octane gas. Why wouldn't I?
May 13, 2002, 10:09 AM
#36
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Lets compare the EVO VII GSR with 280 hp to an early 1G AWD Eclipse 190 hp (Very similar to an EVO I)
91 AWD
14B
450cc injectors
2" IC pipes
2" exhaust
limited MAS
7.8:1 Comprssion
SMIC
The Eclipse on 114 racefuel, no cat, boost at 19 psi, hacked MAS, K&N. Might pick up realistic 40-50 hp on a cold day and then fuel cut. On a hot summer day, it will pull ok in first and second but by third the SMIC will heat soak so bad that even the race gas cant save it. Next thing you know the timing is in the ****ter and even if it wasnt your MAS would be loosing counts.
02 EVO VII
16G
560cc injectors
3" IC pipes
2.5" exhaust
8.8:1 Compression
FMIC
On pump gas with Japanese premium its making a claimed 280 hp. Probably a bit more looking at trap times the car is capable of. Will the JDM EVO VII make 280 hp on US 91 fuel? That is the question. Remember the Sport Compact car review a while back. The car was a lot slower than they thought it should have been. Maybe someone should have filled her up with 76 100 octane unleaded instead of that crappy 91 **** you get at most places.
91 AWD
14B
450cc injectors
2" IC pipes
2" exhaust
limited MAS
7.8:1 Comprssion
SMIC
The Eclipse on 114 racefuel, no cat, boost at 19 psi, hacked MAS, K&N. Might pick up realistic 40-50 hp on a cold day and then fuel cut. On a hot summer day, it will pull ok in first and second but by third the SMIC will heat soak so bad that even the race gas cant save it. Next thing you know the timing is in the ****ter and even if it wasnt your MAS would be loosing counts.
02 EVO VII
16G
560cc injectors
3" IC pipes
2.5" exhaust
8.8:1 Compression
FMIC
On pump gas with Japanese premium its making a claimed 280 hp. Probably a bit more looking at trap times the car is capable of. Will the JDM EVO VII make 280 hp on US 91 fuel? That is the question. Remember the Sport Compact car review a while back. The car was a lot slower than they thought it should have been. Maybe someone should have filled her up with 76 100 octane unleaded instead of that crappy 91 **** you get at most places.
May 13, 2002, 07:28 PM
#38
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91 AWD
14B
450cc injectors
2" IC pipes
2" exhaust
limited MAS
7.8:1 Comprssion
SMIC
The Eclipse on 114 racefuel, no cat, boost at 19 psi, hacked MAS, K&N. Might pick up realistic 40-50 hp on a cold day and then fuel cut. On a hot summer day, it will pull ok in first and second but by third the SMIC will heat soak so bad that even the race gas cant save it. Next thing you know the timing is in the ****ter and even if it wasnt your MAS would be loosing counts.
14B
450cc injectors
2" IC pipes
2" exhaust
limited MAS
7.8:1 Comprssion
SMIC
The Eclipse on 114 racefuel, no cat, boost at 19 psi, hacked MAS, K&N. Might pick up realistic 40-50 hp on a cold day and then fuel cut. On a hot summer day, it will pull ok in first and second but by third the SMIC will heat soak so bad that even the race gas cant save it. Next thing you know the timing is in the ****ter and even if it wasnt your MAS would be loosing counts.
1) exhaust manifold and O2 sensor housing need porting.
2) run 117 octane.
At this point you are right about one thing, the exhaust is REALLY holding the car back, and honestly, I used the word "creative exhaust work" too liberally. You would have to have some friends that can weld, I guess. so...
3) 2.5 inch cat/back exhaust.
Now you are underrating a few things. The hacked MAS has run over 115 mph traps, and the stock side mount (way underratted, as one of the better stock I/C's out there see this link for more info ) has also gone that fast. Both these are good for 11 second runs in a very heavy 1G DSM. Are you going to do this on a small 14b? It will be close. But you will still be in the efficiency range of both, along with the injectors, at 105, 106 mph. Those are stock JDM spec EVO numbers. Fuel cut is not a certainty at this point, but you are right, it is a possibility.
As long as they don't mess with the ECU too much, I am sure it won't be too difficult to tune out what they change, hopefully enough to keep the dealer from getting suspicious.
This debate is great, btw. You seem to know your stuff.
May 14, 2002, 12:44 AM
#39
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Unhdsm,
I have messed about with hacked 1G MAS's for a long time on my 90 AWD. My car really woke up when I switched to a 2G MAS with 550's. You have to tune it with a SAFC but top end power is better as well as idle.
Its amazing when I think how many different injector / turbo configurations Mitsubishi had for the 1G DSM's based on hp/transmission/drivetrain. Do you have a chart showing this?
Matt
I have messed about with hacked 1G MAS's for a long time on my 90 AWD. My car really woke up when I switched to a 2G MAS with 550's. You have to tune it with a SAFC but top end power is better as well as idle.
Its amazing when I think how many different injector / turbo configurations Mitsubishi had for the 1G DSM's based on hp/transmission/drivetrain. Do you have a chart showing this?
Matt
May 14, 2002, 02:42 AM
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Its amazing when I think how many different injector / turbo configurations Mitsubishi had for the 1G DSM's based on hp/transmission/drivetrain. Do you have a chart showing this?
We come from different school for sure. I have never had good luck tuning a 2G MAF with 550's and AFC. I always get erratic behavior, and strange knock sums. I have had better luck with AFC and modded 1G MAF, but it doesnt flow quite as well.
May 14, 2002, 04:15 AM
#41
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Originally posted by Mordeth
Who said that the Evo was losing the aftercooler completely?
God this rumors forum is such fun.
Mordeth
Who said that the Evo was losing the aftercooler completely?
God this rumors forum is such fun.
Mordeth
May 14, 2002, 05:53 AM
#43
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Originally posted by HobieKopek
Just to clarify...Not losing the intercooler. Losing the front mount intercooler in favor of perhaps a side mount or a nice lounge chair one like the STi.
Just to clarify...Not losing the intercooler. Losing the front mount intercooler in favor of perhaps a side mount or a nice lounge chair one like the STi.
The reason I asked that was based on this comment by you:
Hobie said: " The existing FMIC may not pass crash standard tests, but I seriously doubt the Evo will come to the states without one at all. That's just me of course. "
I was asking you why you said this. In other words, did someone say that the Evo was NOT coming with ANY aftercooler that caused you to say "I doubt the Evo will come to the states without one" ? I was really questioning why this was even an issue, ie, why would you bring this up?
That is all.
It was more sarcastic than anything. This rumors forum has really become a joke for me. So much fun.
Mordeth
May 14, 2002, 05:54 AM
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Originally posted by loneeemeeeee
Perhaps it would be better to suggest that its not going to have a nose mount intercooler.
Perhaps it would be better to suggest that its not going to have a nose mount intercooler.
Hobie stated this:
Originally posted by HobieKopek
"The existing FMIC may not pass crash standard tests, but I seriously doubt the Evo will come to the states without one at all. That's just me of course."
We all know the Evo has an aftercooler. The only question is the placement. My question to him was who told him it would not have an aftercooler? In other words, why would he tell us all that he doubts they would come to the states without one? Did someone tell him it wasn't going to have one?
Get it?
Mordeth
