Lancer Evolution RS Thread [MEGA MERGE]
Nov 22, 2003, 07:52 AM
#286
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Also, I remember Mitsu distinctly saying that the US Evo will evolve differently from the Japanese one, which only leads me to believe that our current Evo's may be as close to JDM as we'll ever see..
Nov 22, 2003, 09:38 AM
#289
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Am I the only one that would get the RS but for the sound-deadening materials being removed? I don't need amenities, but I have to be able to live with it as a daily driver (no second car option for me). Any chance the factory could make an RS (special order) with the sound-deadening left in?
Nov 22, 2003, 03:50 PM
#290
Originally posted by M3lachsilber
I think that
should continue the evolution of the EVO by continuing upward instead of backward.
I think that
should continue the evolution of the EVO by continuing upward instead of backward.
With all the advanced automotive technology available today (e.g., all alloy engines, direct injection, carbon fiber and aluminum body and chassis components, bonding rather than riveting/welding, etc.) you would expect a sportscar to get lighter with each generation! Unfortunately, each newer generation gets loaded with dubious "safety" and comfort features that only add weight and detract from the driving experience.
End of rant.
Emre
Nov 22, 2003, 06:06 PM
#292
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Originally posted by Kayaalp
Losing weight is a step in the right direction if you ask me. I don't think it's "evolution" for a car to get heavier and more complex with each generation. How come the 190hp, 4-cylinder E30 M3 still gets better lap times than the 240hp, 6-cylinder E36 M3? How come the E30 can even hang with the 330hp E46 M3 around tighter tracks (such as Lime Rock)? Because each generation of the M3 is bigger, heavier, less tossable, more understeery, and gives less feedback.
With all the advanced automotive technology available today (e.g., all alloy engines, direct injection, carbon fiber and aluminum body and chassis components, bonding rather than riveting/welding, etc.) you would expect a sportscar to get lighter with each generation! Unfortunately, each newer generation gets loaded with dubious "safety" and comfort features that only add weight and detract from the driving experience.
End of rant.
Emre
Losing weight is a step in the right direction if you ask me. I don't think it's "evolution" for a car to get heavier and more complex with each generation. How come the 190hp, 4-cylinder E30 M3 still gets better lap times than the 240hp, 6-cylinder E36 M3? How come the E30 can even hang with the 330hp E46 M3 around tighter tracks (such as Lime Rock)? Because each generation of the M3 is bigger, heavier, less tossable, more understeery, and gives less feedback.
With all the advanced automotive technology available today (e.g., all alloy engines, direct injection, carbon fiber and aluminum body and chassis components, bonding rather than riveting/welding, etc.) you would expect a sportscar to get lighter with each generation! Unfortunately, each newer generation gets loaded with dubious "safety" and comfort features that only add weight and detract from the driving experience.
End of rant.
Emre
It is rediculous how heavy "sports cars" are today. And with that weight you do need more and more hp, better gas (to run the more hp), better brakes (which will wear out sooner), tires on and on.
We are going the wrong direction in weight with each progressive generation. (I wonder how much the evo9 will weigh). Mits takes off 90pounds and this is a step but a very very small one. An evo or wrx, STi, mini cooper, 350z, C5, or viper should NOT weigh over 3000 pounds. At these weights these cars are obsene pigs. (I own a wrx and am not afraid to call my car a pig - I like it alot but I'd love it at 500 pounds less.)
I wish manufacturers would shoot for the 2400-2600pound area (though even less would be nice) of the S2k or miata. Yes, I know it would make these cars smaller but it is a sports car, shouldn't it be???
Nov 23, 2003, 07:46 AM
#293
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it is a sports car, but the manufacturers are constrained by modifying an existing caar so as to improve sales of that model. The Lancer WRC as well as the Evolution exist to sell more Lancers. Do you think the Lancer OZ would have such a following were it not for its similarities to the Evo? The sales of the Evo alone don't justify its existence, it acts as a 'halo' car to bring interested buyers into the showroom. Can't afford the Evo? Mitsubishi would love to sell you a ralliart... Also, Mitsubishi doesn't have the manufacturing resources of Honda to build a sports car from the ground up like an S2K... the Miata weighs less because it's far simpler, but even the Gen 2 Miata is heavier than the first generation. If you want a light high performance car, get an Elise... but I think most people have forgotten how uncomfortable a "true" sports car can be. FYI, Curb weight of S2K is 2800 lbs, and the miata is ~ 2400 lbs.
Nov 23, 2003, 04:21 PM
#294
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How come the 190hp, 4-cylinder E30 M3 still gets better lap times than the 240hp, 6-cylinder E36 M3?
It does because of CHASSIS design and SUSPENSION my friend..
Not because the car has less techno goodies than the E46 M3...
If you want to discuss the reasons the E30 M3 can hang with the "newer M's, let's talk..
As this car evolved, it was lightened, but never stripped of options..
They simply gave it a better airbox, pistons, valve train, cams, or a lighter front bumper, or a better braking system. but NEVER did they offer the car ANY less equipped than the year before...
And if they had a special edition E30 M3(Ravaglia,Cecotto,anyone?) like this so called EVO "RS", it was LOADED and had special badging and interior packaging to set it apart from the rest of the E30 M3's..(Ravaglia and Cecotto Models are HIGHLY desirable because those E30 M3's embodied every enhancement the car was to recieve technically, were built to celebrate the racing victories of those two drivers and were limited production with special interiors, etc..IE: THEY WEREN'T STRIPPOS!!
With all the advanced automotive technology available today (e.g., all alloy engines, direct injection, carbon fiber and aluminum body and chassis components, bonding rather than riveting/welding, etc.) you would expect a sportscar to get lighter with each generation! Unfortunately, each newer generation gets loaded with dubious "safety" and comfort features that only add weight and detract from the driving experience.
Read it again, because you are missing the changes that were made, the weight sacrificed, but the intuitive handling that remains the central focus of the car...AS IT SHOULD BE in a sports car..
Hey, at least I agree with that part of your rant ..
Last edited by M3lachsilber; Nov 23, 2003 at 04:29 PM.
Nov 23, 2003, 11:37 PM
#298
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Originally posted by Mister2zx3
meisnerboy - the focus and mini cooper are both relatively light and torquey. So is the SRT4. But they all have the lack of good sports car RWD.
meisnerboy - the focus and mini cooper are both relatively light and torquey. So is the SRT4. But they all have the lack of good sports car RWD.
We are victoms of the at present larger car trend and this has really kept our sports cars too heavy IMHO. The 350z was built on the G35 sedan platform eventhough it is a coup. In this day manufactirers have to share platforms to keep costs reasonable.
But, like all trends this trend will change too.
There are some hybrid cars on the market which are ultra light. The Honda Insight weighs only 1850 lbs. Toyota has the MR2 and Mazda the Miata. And, when these platforms are used for a real beefed up turbocharged sports car then the GT sports sedans rulling the roads today will have met their match.
I sure hope that day comes soon.
Nov 24, 2003, 12:30 AM
#300
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Doesn't E30 M3 have rear semi-trailing arm suspension?
I believe those rear suspensions are very unstable in
fast lane change type maneuvers.... not exactly good for
newbie drivers....
I heard that from a M coupe driver at a autocross event... which
I believe have the same basic suspension setup as the E30 M3s?
He was having trouble going full throttle through a tight lane
change part of the course while I could do that with my E36 M3
with any drama....
(Btw, his M coupe has full coilover set with R Compound tires
while mine is near stock with street tires...)
I believe those rear suspensions are very unstable in
fast lane change type maneuvers.... not exactly good for
newbie drivers....
I heard that from a M coupe driver at a autocross event... which
I believe have the same basic suspension setup as the E30 M3s?
He was having trouble going full throttle through a tight lane
change part of the course while I could do that with my E36 M3
with any drama....
(Btw, his M coupe has full coilover set with R Compound tires
while mine is near stock with street tires...)