Broham

iTrader: (10)

i wonder then if many others are misinformed regarding their stock frame setups. if the motor isn't built yet they are getting fast spool with high torque quickly, why is it that the t3's get the bad wrap? Wouldn't tq coming on slowly with the big turbo's and flattening out be safer for the stock folks? What is the story of the 2.1L benefits? added displacement but you can still rev? anyone running this setup

4RETECH

iTrader: (86)

Built the engine myself: Wiseco pistons, eagle rods, studs top and bottom - 23,000 miles

BBK installed at 216K with a new tune - 16,000 miles


Still driving the car every day, except for this week as I am finally getting the front end painted

wizzo 8

iTrader: (35)

Hoping mine will last at least 50k miles.

Lucas English

iTrader: (12)

Trying to decided life of motor vs mileage is not the best way.

If its just driven and not raced it will go a long time.

All our 600+ hp cars we have been getting AMS oil pans on them. So I hope the steal rod bearing life will be longer.

I think a hobb switch at 10psi that starts a hr meter and compere time over 10psi and life span not miles would be a better way.

Broham

iTrader: (10)

4RETECH, nice man. Do you own a shop or you just did all this in your garage?
232k miles is crazy man!

ER,

i see what you mean. I guess if the motor is built and just babied most of the time then it should last fine but if pushed more and more it obviously has a higher chance of failure with the additional power its handling. Will the ams oil pan only work for 2.0 builds or also 2.4 builds? Do you find the stock oil pans to fail in these built motors?

BLKCarbonEVO

iTrader: (2)

Lucas, If you don't mind.... The AMS pan will fit the 4G64 (2.4) with the exception of the crank scrapper, it won't clear the large 100mm crank. In reference to the pan, the stock one doesn't fail. The problem is how the pick-up tube is designed/baffles (lack there of)... With a stock pan, during hard accelerations and cornering the oil pickup can run dry as the oil splashes to the rear/side of the pan away from the pickup. When you run the pickup dry you are damaging not only your bearings, but your turbo as well. I think a Kiggly HLA and AMS pan should be on every motor for longevity.

The AMS pan also holds 1.5 quarts more oil than the stock oil pan. Another thing that you should be doing on your stock pan till you can get an AMS pan, is run your oil a 1/2 quart over to help the pickup from running dry. It is far from a fix, but a baby band-aide. I even run my AMS pan 1/2 over as well.

Hopefully that answered all your questions.

Lucas, I'm not 100% on what you are taking about with the hobb switch?

Mikey

4RETECH

iTrader: (86)

I did my engine at the dealership in the upstairs shop. But I do Ferrari/Evo work out of three other places in the area.

I love my car!

Lucas English

iTrader: (12)

A Hobb switch is just a adj pressure switch. We use them for Meth kits and to kick on 2nd pumps.

Guys with double pumpers could hook an hr meter to there 2nd pump. I think that data would be awesome.

Broham

iTrader: (10)

I guess that is the most "ideal" measurement of "lasting" but i guess I had a more general style. I know there are too many variables. But I wonder if anybody can say my motor is built with this piston and this rod and I've driven it 50k miles no matter it be babied or stomped on and no leaks. Is this not feasible once its built? As mikey pointed earlier will the bearings get beat on and just need to be replaced anyway?

NOMIEZVR4

iTrader: (10)

Very interesting thread and great timing since I am in the market for a built motor, still deciding between the 2.3 and 2.4.
I was never aware that if your making 600-700hp and beat on the car on a normal bases that the bearings need to be changed every 15-20k.

For my case I plan on making 600-700hp prob going with Buschar 2.3l . I do plan on beating on it more then 50% of the time. With this scenario is it still recommended to change the bearings every 20k? and if so does the head need to be removed also or can it be done by just removing the oil pan?
Besides the AMS oil pan any other tips or options I should go with to help the longevity of the motor?

Broham

iTrader: (10)

nomi,

keep an eye on this thread since ill try hard to keep it alive. THere seems to be a lot of information unknown to the "not built" community since the assumption of many is "it's built so dont worry" That isn't the case clearly since there are factors to be considered and this is the place to ask away.

buschur modifies the stock oil pan for 150 and helps a lot better than stock. The ams one is unique because it holds more oil in there.

One other tip would be the kiggly hla pressure regulator which connects with 3 screws and keeps the oil in the lifters to a minimum and more in the pan, this way you'll have more oil and less starvation on the bearings. Combined with more oil in the oil pan via ams you "should"have much better longevity.

Since bearings seem to be the critical point, has anybody used cosworth bearings? i only see talks of acl race bearings

BLKCarbonEVO

iTrader: (2)

There is absolutely no reason to go 2.3. The 2.4 is better and cheaper. Sell your stock motor and pick up a 4G64 block for a couple hundred. you should have enough money left over to buy your nice I beam rods. You can do a LR2.4 that can rev higher than a 2.3 and will outlast the 2.3. There is absolutely no reason that I can think of to do a 2.3... better gas milage maybe.

The bearings being changed at 20k is very vague... It depends on a lot of things. How much hp/tq you run, how hard you beat your car, how much your rods/pistons weigh, oil starvation, timing you run, and the list goes on. I would at least check them at 20k.

All you have to do is take off the oil pan to check them. If I remember right, usually rod bearing #4 will have the most wear out of all of them. That may just be a "myth" because the ones that I have seen all look pretty close to the same wear.

Like already stated the AMS pan and Kiggly HLA are some of the best two mods to make sure your motor stays happy. Another thing that is key for a built motor is running the proper oil that the motor was clearanced for. Also always let your motor warm up before driving it and NEVER let your motor get low on oil!!!

Mikey

BLKCarbonEVO

iTrader: (2)

I have never used cosworth bearings, not in any of the 3 Honda motors that I built before I had the evo. I also believe that the ACL race bearings are made at the same factory that the cosworth bearings are.

While we are talking about bearings, I will say that I personally like the coated bearings along with coated pistons. It helps with wear and motor break-in. Also for what it is worth, I'm not a fan on the MAP rods, however they do use the larger rod bearings that I do like and should last longer as the load is distripubted over a larger surface area. I'm not saying to buy MAP rods though...

The best rods to run in a 700whp car, are rods that are light but strong. The lighter the rod the longer your bearings will last as well as the higher you can rev a car due to the lower rotational mass. I am very excited to see the new GSC H beams. They are rated the same as an I beam but weight as much as an H beam The other option is running an aluminium rod. The aluminium rods will allow your bearings to last much longer however, you have other problems with running these rods. Most people will say they need to be changed at 20-25k due to them weakening over time due to the dramatic temp changes and the stress exscerted on them. Also you can't drive an aluminium rod motor cold, a big no no! I would rather change out cheap bearings then new rods. There are pros and cons to everything when building a motor.

Also I personally like I beams even for motors that won't be pushed over 500tq... Reason being, I would rather replace the bearings earlier than an H beam car, then take a chance of a rod failing and having to replace the whole motor. Once a gain my .02

Mikey

buchnerj

iTrader: (19)

E-85 and 35-38psi. I would have to pull out the dyno graph to confirm this, it was done six months ago or so. It isn't driven at that power level, that was the max power during the dyno session. On the road it is around ~525/490. I DD it so all that power isn't necessary 24/7.

Before on the built motor I had an HTA Green and it was making around 525 torque on a dynojet. Eventually the turbine gave up the ghost and FP upgraded me to a Red for free.

buchnerj

iTrader: (19)

I also agree with everything Mikey posted above. Oil is the life blood of the car, make sure you run the correct weight for the clearances that the builder used. They probably won't divulge every engine spec, but they will recommend an oil and you would be wise to listen to their suggestions.

I have not checked my bearings yet, but eventually down the road, maybe 25k on the clock I will rip her up and take a peek. Especially with how much money we (most of us here) spend on these motors, it is correct, you would be much better served to do the maintenance early than have your rod exit stage left and have to cough up cash for another motor.

I have been impressed with the 2.1L thus far, but have read nothing but good things about the LR2.4s. Price, torque and availability of parts and short blocks is all a huge plus for these motors. You could find one yourself and pay machine shop to bring it up to spec for much cheaper then most options out there. Regardless, the 4G is a hell of a platform and it is nice to have so many options to choose from.