Help With Mod Plan For First Tune (On A Budget)
Sep 21, 2011, 08:09 AM
#61
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
I'm thinking maybe I should take it slow, go step-by-step and just start with this:
- TBE (Megan DP, 100 Cell HFC, Tanabe Touring Catback)
- SpeedElement OMG Air Filter
- ETS 3.5" FMIC Kit (w / UICP & LICP)
- Walbro 255 lph Fuel Pump
- MBC
- Wide Band O2 Sensor
- Tune
This will cost a lot less but still be a hell of a lot of fun. Run this til I want more, by then I'll have a better idea of what more I actually want.
- TBE (Megan DP, 100 Cell HFC, Tanabe Touring Catback)
- SpeedElement OMG Air Filter
- ETS 3.5" FMIC Kit (w / UICP & LICP)
- Walbro 255 lph Fuel Pump
- MBC
- Wide Band O2 Sensor
- Tune
This will cost a lot less but still be a hell of a lot of fun. Run this til I want more, by then I'll have a better idea of what more I actually want.
Sep 21, 2011, 08:22 AM
#62
Evolved Member
perfect but if ur really tryin to save as much as possible dont need the wideband, its nice to have but not a necessity in tryin to make power on a budget. and besides most tuners plug there bung into the rear of the exhaust when tuning afrs. So not needed, but an eye distraction while driving. haha
Sep 21, 2011, 09:24 AM
#63
Newbie
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: chino hills, CA
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You might be able to get away with stock injectors if you don't plan to do much more than a FMIC, and not have the added hassle of dealing with scaling and latency values, potential idle issues, and all the other good stuff that comes with running larger injectors. You really won't know until you log your IDC, but I think you might be okay (if you stay on pump gas)
Sep 21, 2011, 10:02 AM
#64
Evolving Member
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern chicago burbs
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Really? the only reason im doing larger ones, is because I went to get tuned and I was leaning out real bad and he suggested it, along with a walbro. Because along with the FMIC im starting to look and read more about some GSC s2 or Kelford 272s. And ill mostly be running 91
Sep 21, 2011, 10:04 AM
#65
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
perfect but if ur really tryin to save as much as possible dont need the wideband, its nice to have but not a necessity in tryin to make power on a budget. and besides most tuners plug there bung into the rear of the exhaust when tuning afrs. So not needed, but an eye distraction while driving. haha
Plus I'll be saving so much not doing the other stuff I was considering getting a proper high quality shortshifter to replace the Ebay/Fidanza that I have that I got installed with no cutting, thus, it aint even short.
So let's say was gonna get a good short shifter that requires NO CUTTING ... which one? Buscher? Works? Another one?
Thanks very much for all the help on this thread. I hope it will help someone else out, too.
Sep 21, 2011, 10:17 AM
#66
Newbie
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: chino hills, CA
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What do you think is a reasonable size injector for the setup Im playing on doing? nothing more then 1000?
thanks
Sep 21, 2011, 03:51 PM
#67
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Now I'm thinking:
- TBE (Works DP, MIL.SPEC 100-cell HFC, Tanabe Medalion Touring Catback)
- SpeedElement OMG Air Filter
- ETS 3.5" FMIC Kit (w / UICP & LICP)
- Walbro 255 lph Fuel Pump
- MBC
- Wide Band O2 Sensor
- Short Throw Shifter (Works)
- Tune
Since I was disappointed with my nickel and diming on the ebay short shifter previously I think I'll go full pimp (has served me well with my Subaru, Vishnu Signature Series exhaust and TMIC still look new after 50 thousand brutal miles). I already have the works shifter bushings so figure I'll go with the matching hardware.
- TBE (Works DP, MIL.SPEC 100-cell HFC, Tanabe Medalion Touring Catback)
- SpeedElement OMG Air Filter
- ETS 3.5" FMIC Kit (w / UICP & LICP)
- Walbro 255 lph Fuel Pump
- MBC
- Wide Band O2 Sensor
- Short Throw Shifter (Works)
- Tune
Since I was disappointed with my nickel and diming on the ebay short shifter previously I think I'll go full pimp (has served me well with my Subaru, Vishnu Signature Series exhaust and TMIC still look new after 50 thousand brutal miles). I already have the works shifter bushings so figure I'll go with the matching hardware.
Sep 22, 2011, 02:56 PM
#68
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Since I decided to go full pimp and since you don't know what quality control or techmology is going into some of the cheaper filters, I decided to go with amsoil:
Vibrant MAF Adapter:
Delivered from MAP $29.98
EAAU4560-EA AMSOIL Universal Air Induction Filter
Delivered from amsoil.com: $61.02
Total: $91.00
So i'm paying double for the peace of mind that comes with getting the dry filter that I believe has proven to be the best here at EvoM from one of the most reputable filtration specialists in the country. I'm ok with that.
Vibrant MAF Adapter:
Delivered from MAP $29.98
EAAU4560-EA AMSOIL Universal Air Induction Filter
Delivered from amsoil.com: $61.02
Total: $91.00
So i'm paying double for the peace of mind that comes with getting the dry filter that I believe has proven to be the best here at EvoM from one of the most reputable filtration specialists in the country. I'm ok with that.
Sep 23, 2011, 08:44 AM
#69
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Update...
New List:
- TBE (Works DP, MIL.SPEC 100-cell HFC, Tanabe Medalion Touring Catback)
- AMSOIL Universal Air Induction Filter (Part# EAAU4560-EA) w/Vibrant MAF Adapter
- ETS 3.5" FMIC Kit (w / UICP & LICP)
- Walbro 255 lph Fuel Pump
- Wide Band O2 Sensor
- Short Throw Shifter (Works)
- Tune
But now after reading some of this:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...rs-my-evo.html
I'm questioning the MBC and considering using the #65 Pill and doing ECU-controlled boost using the stock boost solenoid
I'm going to continue searching and reading until I feel like I have a better understanding of the pros and cons of both, opinions welcomed, thanks again.
New List:
- TBE (Works DP, MIL.SPEC 100-cell HFC, Tanabe Medalion Touring Catback)
- AMSOIL Universal Air Induction Filter (Part# EAAU4560-EA) w/Vibrant MAF Adapter
- ETS 3.5" FMIC Kit (w / UICP & LICP)
- Walbro 255 lph Fuel Pump
- Wide Band O2 Sensor
- Short Throw Shifter (Works)
- Tune
But now after reading some of this:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...rs-my-evo.html
I'm questioning the MBC and considering using the #65 Pill and doing ECU-controlled boost using the stock boost solenoid
I'm going to continue searching and reading until I feel like I have a better understanding of the pros and cons of both, opinions welcomed, thanks again.
Sep 23, 2011, 09:56 AM
#70
Evolved Member
imo ditch the short throw shifter, if your tryin to improve shifter feel either get a polyurethane front motor mount, a steering torque dampener, or shifter base and cable bushings....those will improve it the most, especially if u said budget, mbc arent needed, although easier to adjust on the fly, i prefer my 3 port boost solenoid over my previous dejon tool, air dont bleed out the lines as fast, therefore boost held stays consistent throughout the rpms, plus u get pulled over and piggy cant give u trouble for a mbc.
Sep 23, 2011, 01:00 PM
#71
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Ok, I've done a lot of searching and I think this thread is the most recent and comprehensive:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...ly-debate.html
And the quotes that struck me the most were these:
Boosted Tuning was the only person who posted any data and IMO made the most convincing case especially considering that he's the original Evo_Kid.
So now I'm gonnna talk to my tuner about using the Greddy Profec Type S or AEM tru-boost. I especially like the concept of adjusting from inside the car.
The AEM tru boost is only $100 more than the Hallman Pro and has some nice features, electronic push button adjustment, overboost alarm, not to mention it includes a boost gauge which I'm guessing is very accurate.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...ly-debate.html
And the quotes that struck me the most were these:
Do you have data to back that up?
I have tuned many ECU boost setups and have gone back and forth between ECU boost and MBC more then anyone I know. I know how to tune perfect ECU boost. But even with perfectly tuned ECU boost, I always see the MBC spools faster.
I have explained why this is and will explain it again if you'd like. But for now, here is some data ..
As the data shows, the ECU boost run went WOT first and still didnt even spool faster then the MBC. Also, this perfectly tuned ECU boost. If you notice, error corr. is not even needed, as it is tuned perfectly.
Someone may say that I need to hold the WGDC @ 100% more, but doing that on this setup led to spikes.
I have tuned many ECU boost setups and have gone back and forth between ECU boost and MBC more then anyone I know. I know how to tune perfect ECU boost. But even with perfectly tuned ECU boost, I always see the MBC spools faster.
I have explained why this is and will explain it again if you'd like. But for now, here is some data ..
As the data shows, the ECU boost run went WOT first and still didnt even spool faster then the MBC. Also, this perfectly tuned ECU boost. If you notice, error corr. is not even needed, as it is tuned perfectly.
Someone may say that I need to hold the WGDC @ 100% more, but doing that on this setup led to spikes.
Not trying to argue, I have just seen many, actually almost all (good) pro tuners prefer MBCs and I'm still baffled why. Wouldn't you have to settle for picking one gear to set your MBC and have to compromise on the rest?
I have messed with an MBC before but don't have much experience.
I have messed with an MBC before but don't have much experience.
I have a 3 port on my car as well as in cabin hallman..I like hallman for better spoolup and a more stable boost curve. ECU boost always wants to hunt while in error correction mode, it annoys me so I run just wgdc on my personal car..ECU boost definitely provides moar top end with the same peak pressure which is great for power. I typically switch back and fourth regularly depending on use.
For those that don't want to tune ECU boost, but also don't want the downsides to an MBC, you can always use a cheap EBC, like I do. As mentioned above, I use the Greddy Profec Type S (basically remodel of the old Profec B from the old days).
They are very simple, should be cheap now, have an in cabin control, and has controls for boost and boost response. In my opinions, solenoids are better than springs in every aspect.
They are very simple, should be cheap now, have an in cabin control, and has controls for boost and boost response. In my opinions, solenoids are better than springs in every aspect.
So now I'm gonnna talk to my tuner about using the Greddy Profec Type S or AEM tru-boost. I especially like the concept of adjusting from inside the car.
The AEM tru boost is only $100 more than the Hallman Pro and has some nice features, electronic push button adjustment, overboost alarm, not to mention it includes a boost gauge which I'm guessing is very accurate.
Last edited by wjamyers; Sep 23, 2011 at 04:36 PM.
Sep 23, 2011, 01:07 PM
#72
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
imo ditch the short throw shifter, if your tryin to improve shifter feel either get a polyurethane front motor mount, a steering torque dampener, or shifter base and cable bushings....those will improve it the most, especially if u said budget, mbc arent needed, although easier to adjust on the fly, i prefer my 3 port boost solenoid over my previous dejon tool, air dont bleed out the lines as fast, therefore boost held stays consistent throughout the rpms, plus u get pulled over and piggy cant give u trouble for a mbc.
So I'm pretty convinced I'm getting the pimp short shifter, i guess I'm gonna blow my budget a little, but, I saved some money not doing o2 housing and cams.
Thanks for all your advice, it's been invaluable!
Sep 23, 2011, 11:33 PM
#73
Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: bangor
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had a Borla with a teat pipe and a small cam and it was quiet enough I never had a problem then traded for a ams with a high flow cat and it was louder then the Borla with a test pipe
Sep 26, 2011, 12:34 PM
#74
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
I've been searching and searching but have yet to find a post that clearly outlines the specific advantage of an EBC over an MBC that justifies the added expense and complexity. The best I can find is something like "a solenoid is better than a spring" but that might not be the case if the solenoid is more complicated to setup and maintain or more prone to failure.
Now I'm thinking I'll just go with whichever MBC my tuner is most comfortable using or he has no particular preference the Hallman Pro with the stiff spring, metal ball and the in cabin adjustment.
Now I'm thinking I'll just go with whichever MBC my tuner is most comfortable using or he has no particular preference the Hallman Pro with the stiff spring, metal ball and the in cabin adjustment.
Last edited by wjamyers; Sep 26, 2011 at 12:36 PM.
Oct 3, 2011, 04:11 PM
#75
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
Started looking at suspension upgrade too after reading here how replacing my stock KYBs with some Bilsteins would give me a less harsh ride with BETTER performance (win/win!)
So I started looking around for the combination of spring/shock and based on the consensus here, since I'm not into lowering my car, it looks like GTWorx + Bilstein HD (B6?) is the ticket for a reasonably priced handling upgrade that wont DEgrade my ride characteristics.
Does this combination look right?
GTWorx Street/Track EVO Springs:
http://www.gtworx.com/index.php/cata.../category/219/
Bilstein HD Fronts:
B6 Heavy Duty Gas Pressure Monotube Strut Assembly - 36mm
EVO IX - Engine: 2.0L/1997cc (122ci) L4
Front - Increased durability and performance while maintaining ride comfort - Bilstein products are backed by an aftermarket lifetime warranty.
Mfg# 35-118435, NOPI# 453+3922
NOPI Price $266.64 Ea
http://www.nopi.com/dsp_part_detail....=250&vpcid=453
Bilstein HD Rears:
B6 Heavy Duty Gas Pressure Monotube Shock Absorber - 46mm
EVO IX - SE - Engine: 2.0L/1997cc (122ci) L4
Rear - Increased durability and performance while maintaining ride comfort - Bilstein products are backed by an aftermarket lifetime warranty.
Mfg# 24-118446, NOPI# 453+4843
NOPI Price $120.33 Ea
http://nopi.com/dsp_part_detail.php?...43&vt=m&vpcid=
This is the most livable, reliable, high performance, and non-ricey combination going according to the reading I have done.
Thoughts? Input much appreciated.
BTW, I did my AMSOil Filter this weekend and it sounds wicked. At first I thought it could possibly be too loud to live with but I'm enjoying it and it seems that I notice it less and less the more I drive. Yes it's big, yes I had to bend the bracket holding the ACD fluid forward until so that the aluminum corner/edge of the just touches it. I also zip tied it up by using one tie around the UICP and the other through the MAF Senser hose clamp's screw so that it doesn't flop around too much or rest with too much weight on the bracket.
So I started looking around for the combination of spring/shock and based on the consensus here, since I'm not into lowering my car, it looks like GTWorx + Bilstein HD (B6?) is the ticket for a reasonably priced handling upgrade that wont DEgrade my ride characteristics.
Does this combination look right?
GTWorx Street/Track EVO Springs:
http://www.gtworx.com/index.php/cata.../category/219/
Bilstein HD Fronts:
B6 Heavy Duty Gas Pressure Monotube Strut Assembly - 36mm
EVO IX - Engine: 2.0L/1997cc (122ci) L4
Front - Increased durability and performance while maintaining ride comfort - Bilstein products are backed by an aftermarket lifetime warranty.
Mfg# 35-118435, NOPI# 453+3922
NOPI Price $266.64 Ea
http://www.nopi.com/dsp_part_detail....=250&vpcid=453
Bilstein HD Rears:
B6 Heavy Duty Gas Pressure Monotube Shock Absorber - 46mm
EVO IX - SE - Engine: 2.0L/1997cc (122ci) L4
Rear - Increased durability and performance while maintaining ride comfort - Bilstein products are backed by an aftermarket lifetime warranty.
Mfg# 24-118446, NOPI# 453+4843
NOPI Price $120.33 Ea
http://nopi.com/dsp_part_detail.php?...43&vt=m&vpcid=
This is the most livable, reliable, high performance, and non-ricey combination going according to the reading I have done.
Thoughts? Input much appreciated.
BTW, I did my AMSOil Filter this weekend and it sounds wicked. At first I thought it could possibly be too loud to live with but I'm enjoying it and it seems that I notice it less and less the more I drive. Yes it's big, yes I had to bend the bracket holding the ACD fluid forward until so that the aluminum corner/edge of the just touches it. I also zip tied it up by using one tie around the UICP and the other through the MAF Senser hose clamp's screw so that it doesn't flop around too much or rest with too much weight on the bracket.