Benjamin

This is just my opinion but tell me if i'm wrong here to say that
all of this shootout talk is absolutely ridiculous. Just look at the prices for these other tuner's ecu tuning solution and you will realize you guys are trying to compare a $3.00 apple to a .25 cent orange.

The day another evo tuner is willing to offer an ecu tune that does as much as dynoflash AND starts at around **$199** for a through the mail flash is the day when we can all start considering a tuner shootout to compare similar products against Dynoflash.

As of this writing, there really is nothing comparable to Dynoflash until you start looking at through the mail reflashes costing $350-$600 and I think Dynoflash was even doing free shipping on that $199 deal! (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

In a sense, the Dynoflash ecu tune product stays true to the "Evolution Heritage" of offering a product that rivals or approaches the performance of other ecu solutions costing several times more. "Supercar performance for the everyday man. "

I don't know Big Al other than reading posts about him and his product though this message board so I cannot vouch for his personality, but as far as his contribution to us Evo owners in the form of his Dynoflash tune, hundreds of Evo owners cannot thank him enough.

And I assume several hundred others Evo owners will continue to thank him in the future unless you other ecu reflash tuners wake up, smell the whiff of REALITY and start offering more competively priced products.

Again, this is my opinion only....if i'm wrong about my way of thinking, please educate me.

Rob W.

iTrader: (8)

It's due to the fact that the Dynoflash is so cheap that a lot of us want to see a comparison with the Vishnu and Works stuff. It'd just be extra fulfilling to see that our $200 flash was within a few HP (or even more?) and yet we saved $250+.

BTW, the shipping from the customer to Al was covered by the customer.. Al paid the return shipping (FedEx, 2nd day air).

zupber4930

iTrader: (22)

I am also wanting a shoot out of the several ECU Reflash Products. Works vs. XFlash vs. Dynoflash vs. whatever else is out there. Is anyone (THIRD PARTY ONLY) interested in hosting this shoot out on stock EVO's? Perhaps David Buschur would help....he's VERY respected and would not "side" with anyone I don't think.

Alfriedesq

iTrader: (6)

Actually Buschur will have their own reflash product very soon indeed!

Alfriedesq

iTrader: (6)

Thanks for the support - our goal was to offer a good product that works very well - and do it a a very fair price. I appreciate your support

Cabo

Price is only one thing to be taken into consideration. Another thing to look at is the method used to tune. You are working with EXISTING equipment on the car and getting more out of it (kind of like overclocking the CPU in your PC). There isn't a bunch of extra crap you have to plug in that will void your warranty either.

Are there any other ECU upgrades out there that work like this? I am definitely not interested in anything that is 'piggyback'. I haven't read up on some of the other upgrades, so I don't know if there is something similar available or not.

Cabo

trev0006

iTrader: (2)

Hey Al,

Are still comming to Southern Cali on the 10th of this month?

Ryno

iTrader: (2)

Any details? I have always liked Buschur products and their service.

Alfriedesq

iTrader: (6)

For details contact Buschur. Basically, they will have their own proprietary flashes for the Buschur Stages - tuned and adjusted by Buschur to work on their stages, sold directly by Buschur.

Alfriedesq

iTrader: (6)

The trip has been kicked to the 24th and 25th - go to so cal evo for details or call me 203-515-4110

LDB

It isn't about what they cost but what they do, at least to me. I want to see what each will actually do for the money spent. I'm willing to pay more if I get more however if doubling the price only results in maybe 10% more gain then I'd probably pass.

My hope and suggestion is to have more than just a flash or piggyback. I'd like to see a few mods done sequentially along with their cumulative results. In other words, I'd like to see tuner A suggest 1,2,3,4 and at each step see dyno numbers and then tuner B suggests A,B,C,D and so on. That would give guys with stock cars a great idea of how to proceed.

DavidV@WORKS

iTrader: (2)

Why buy an Evo when a Camaro is just as fast for half the price?

Sometimes it pays in the long run to look past the price tag. There's the old adage: "you get what you pay for" and after all, in this case, we're talking about the brain in your $30,000+ car.

I would encourage Evo owners to pick up the phone and call each of the tuners and ask as many questions as it takes to feel fully comfortable before making a decision. Ask about credentials. Ask about tuning philosophy and what the tune is and isn't designed to do.

Our in-house ECU engineers are just that -- engineers with mechanical and electrical engineering degrees. Our lead ECU engineer has not been doing automotive ECU tuning for past 8 months, or 4 years -- he has been doing this for nearly as long as the Evo has been on the market (almost 10 years now).

When it comes to ECU reflashing, caveat emptor.

-- DavidV

lowkey

iTrader: (5)

David: I would like to know how the prices for the ECU re-flashes are set?

Lets’ be honest here, when we buy a re-flash we are not buying a THING, we are paying for some data that comes off a hard drive. You can pay someone $8 an hour and he/she can do hundreds per day. The only big cost item that is build into the price is R&D. And if that is not an ongoing thing that makes it into newer versions, the prices should go down, right?

DavidV@WORKS

iTrader: (2)

Not exactly. For instance, when you buy a P2 Brain Flash, you are getting a boost tube that we engineered and built. Free? Hardly.

You actually raise a good example to illustrate my point above. One of the questions that a consumer should ask is that if boost mapping is offered, how is it achieved?

I have seen vendor posts to this board describing a 10-minute delay being the workaround for holding boost. At WORKS, we actually took the time to engineer a hard part – the boost tube that comes with every P2 -- to allow the ECU to hit and hold boost as it was intended. Compare our boost charts to others, and you’ll see what a difference this approach makes.

Does it cost us more in both R&D and parts to do it this way? Of course it does. But then, we have our long-term reputations at stake and years from now and time will tell whether the cheaper alternative was in fact just as good or just as safe as the right way of doing it.

Also, consider that the cost of the reflash might reflect the amount of time and expense (both man-hours and dyno time) that went into it. Factored into this is the relative experience and expertise of those involved in creating the maps. If a company were to contract out the ECU mapping to an outside party, conceivably they could have the maps created for a fraction of the cost compared to a company paying its own engineers a salary to do nothing but create maps for the Evo.

-- DavidV

lowkey

iTrader: (5)

Well, I for one hope you and all the other tuners make enough to stay in business (but not so much that you can afford a Ferrari!). That should keep it competitive and relatively cheap for consumers like me.

Off-topic, a turbo-back exhaust with a high-flow cat and Magnaflow muffler would look good in your catalogue…