FP Red or FP Black ??
Nov 14, 2011, 02:03 AM
#33
Being that your on 91 Oct. I would go with the black. You know it will hit your goals, especially at a lower psi then the green and red. Plus you will have room to go later. Less torque will be easier on your drivetrain, clutch and stock block.
Nov 20, 2011, 07:03 AM
#37
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So the black will produce more hp and less torque? It would be safer for the stock block? Is there's a big difference between a ball bearing/ ported and a journal/non ported?
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*Evil Evo* (Oct 14, 2022)
Nov 20, 2011, 07:29 AM
#39
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The BB Black will have about 200 RPM quicker spool than its JB brothers. Some say that it is not so much this slight difference in spool, but instead, the transient response that is more impressive when comparing a BB Black to the older JB Black. Improved transient response, plus increased longevity due to the rotating assembly being less susceptible to lubricating issues.
Torque is the Achilles heel of the stock blocks on our Evos. Once engine torque climbs above 420ish you start playing with fire. The bottom end can't take it for long.
The Red and the Black produce relatively high horsepower increases without upping lowed and midrange torque significantly. By contrast, the HTA Green's, the BBK-B's, etc. tend to produce a lot of lowend and midrange torque.
This is why read about a lot of tuners aiming for low torque/high horsepower tunes when tuning the Green, or the BBK-B on stock block Evo's.
Nov 20, 2011, 07:35 AM
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Yeah, I like your setup(Red with 2.3L). The Red shares the same turbine as the Black, so the exhaust back pressure shouldn't be an issue. The comp wheel is lower mass and HTA so, it should spool up nasty quick on a street driven 2.3L Evo.... even in JB format. Is there any E-85 and 32 PSI in your car's future?
Nov 20, 2011, 07:38 AM
#41
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I think that Forced Performance no longer is going to build JB Blacks....only BB Blacks from now on. I think that this is correct.
The BB Black will have about 200 RPM quicker spool than its JB brothers. Some say that it is not so much this slight difference in spool, but instead, the transient response that is more impressive when comparing a BB Black to the older JB Black. Improved transient response, plus increased longevity due to the rotating assembly being less susceptible to lubricating issues.
Torque is the Achilles heel of the stock blocks on our Evos. Once engine torque climbs above 420ish you start playing with fire. The bottom end can't take it for long.
The Red and the Black produce relatively high horsepower increases without upping lowed and midrange torque significantly. By contrast, the HTA Green's, the BBK-B's, etc. tend to produce a lot of lowend and midrange torque.
This is why read about a lot of tuners aiming for low torque/high horsepower tunes when tuning the Green, or the BBK-B on stock block Evo's.
The BB Black will have about 200 RPM quicker spool than its JB brothers. Some say that it is not so much this slight difference in spool, but instead, the transient response that is more impressive when comparing a BB Black to the older JB Black. Improved transient response, plus increased longevity due to the rotating assembly being less susceptible to lubricating issues.
Torque is the Achilles heel of the stock blocks on our Evos. Once engine torque climbs above 420ish you start playing with fire. The bottom end can't take it for long.
The Red and the Black produce relatively high horsepower increases without upping lowed and midrange torque significantly. By contrast, the HTA Green's, the BBK-B's, etc. tend to produce a lot of lowend and midrange torque.
This is why read about a lot of tuners aiming for low torque/high horsepower tunes when tuning the Green, or the BBK-B on stock block Evo's.
Nov 20, 2011, 09:00 AM
#42
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From what I have gathered reading these forums with respect to The Green vs The Red vs The Black.....The HTA Green is, in general terms, a relatively better torque producer than either The Red, or the Black.
Without a doubt, The Green is a better street turbo on pump gas than either the Red or The Black, but you can't just slap it onto a stock block and expect it to live with an all out tune for very long.
Most guys that run The Green on stock long blocks ask their tuners to limit torque delivery in the midrange of the engine's power band. I don't know anything about tuning, but the tuners have to use their full bag of tricks to keep torque in the low four teens with the Green on a stock long block otherwise you get rods throughout the oil pan. So you need a good tuner to give you a safe tune that emphasizes highend power and lower midrange torque.
Either The Black or the Red are easier to tune on a stock long block running pump gas. They'll produce more topend power than the Green coupled with less midrange torque. These two turbos are easier just to slap on and have your average homeboy tune it without fear of its torque production overwhelming the integrity of the relatively weak stock bottom end.
This is why you'll see a lot of stock motor Reds and Blacks on Meth, or E85 producing over 500WHP with relatively low torque numbers(410-420WTQ). Whereas if you were to max out the Green at about 480WHP on Meth or Ethanol, you would need Ultra-Lad doing the tuning to keep it under 440WTQ.
There are a lot of guys on here running the Green on pump gas. I am sure that they'll chime in. Maybe on pump gas 91, torque is not an issue with the Green as you'll probably be running under 25 PSI.
Without a doubt, The Green is a better street turbo on pump gas than either the Red or The Black, but you can't just slap it onto a stock block and expect it to live with an all out tune for very long.
Most guys that run The Green on stock long blocks ask their tuners to limit torque delivery in the midrange of the engine's power band. I don't know anything about tuning, but the tuners have to use their full bag of tricks to keep torque in the low four teens with the Green on a stock long block otherwise you get rods throughout the oil pan. So you need a good tuner to give you a safe tune that emphasizes highend power and lower midrange torque.
Either The Black or the Red are easier to tune on a stock long block running pump gas. They'll produce more topend power than the Green coupled with less midrange torque. These two turbos are easier just to slap on and have your average homeboy tune it without fear of its torque production overwhelming the integrity of the relatively weak stock bottom end.
This is why you'll see a lot of stock motor Reds and Blacks on Meth, or E85 producing over 500WHP with relatively low torque numbers(410-420WTQ). Whereas if you were to max out the Green at about 480WHP on Meth or Ethanol, you would need Ultra-Lad doing the tuning to keep it under 440WTQ.
There are a lot of guys on here running the Green on pump gas. I am sure that they'll chime in. Maybe on pump gas 91, torque is not an issue with the Green as you'll probably be running under 25 PSI.
Last edited by sparky; Nov 20, 2011 at 09:12 AM.
Nov 20, 2011, 03:59 PM
#43
Yeah, I like your setup(Red with 2.3L). The Red shares the same turbine as the Black, so the exhaust back pressure shouldn't be an issue. The comp wheel is lower mass and HTA so, it should spool up nasty quick on a street driven 2.3L Evo.... even in JB format. Is there any E-85 and 32 PSI in your car's future?
i was going to run e85 with high boost and make it a street monster lol but my plans have changed and the car is going to be used for the drag/track more then the street now so im probably going with a t3 hta86 setuphere's my fp-red numbers on pump gas at 27psi
Last edited by bbyevo8u; Nov 20, 2011 at 04:41 PM.
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