Fp black stock block
Nov 21, 2011, 06:07 PM
#34
no your exactly right on that no arguement here. I mean lets face it we all don't have access to our own personal dyno's and that is why we rely on virtural dyno so much. I mean it has been proven time and time again to be almost dead nuts on the dynojet dynos themselves. But all and all your correct yes.
Nov 21, 2011, 06:11 PM
#36
i think the major key to making a fast stock block car is having a semi laggy turbo that has lots of top end.. the lag will help keep torque under control downlow where the rods really get hammered normally on a quicker spooling turbo setup since the quicker you spool the more torque you're going to produce to an extent. things come into play though, like the amount of airflow being produced and such as well, but the more airflow and quicker spooling turbo is always gonna give you trouble tq wise.
the stock frame setups aren't the best and the reason is because of course the stock frame is a small a/r and the smaller the a/r the quicker its going to respond and the more loss in top end you're going to experience.
but lets talk about the black, ef4, etc.. these are semi laggy turbos since they are pretty much 35R's bolted onto a stock frame housing.. on a 2L its gonna spool anywhere from say 4400 to 4900 depending on application, mods, so on.. we know bigger cams effect spoolup, other things can effect it as well.
are these stock frames to dangerous to run full tilt on stock block? in my opinion no..they are laggy enough to where you can control the torque curve to keep the engine together. there are so many things to do to help this.. 3 port tuning, pulling timing, tuning the spoolup crappy in general, and so on.
think of what you're doing though and then ask yourself if you think the stock block should run like this forever.. these engines come from mitsubishi with what?
60hp per cylinder approx? and once were done adding all our boltons, bigger turbo, and whatever else we can find in the aftermarket world we end up with well over 100hp per cylinder.. what people are doing these days with the stock block is insane, and in general the 4 cyl engine is being pushed and pushed to its limits by everyday people now.
this day and age everyone has 400hp+ it seems.. back years ago 400hp was big power.. these days its nothing.. and the fact the engine can still take it and stay together is amazing.
all in all what do i think? i think a black, ef4, equiv.. is the safest stock frame bolton turbo you want to use for big hp... are they the funnest? for some? yes.. for others? no..
at the end of the day it really comes down to personal preference what turbo best fits somebodies needs.
all the stock frame turbos are fun and perform well, it just comes down to what you want for your car.. and as i mentioned above, with 3 port tuning, timing, etc you can control the tq enough to extract additional power safely..
but nobody should think their engine is bullet proof if their still on a stock block.. even built engines with 1000hp rated i-beam rods let go.. when the engines ready to go it goes.. weather its tuning related or just fatigued hardware in general.. you are always going to pay to play.. thats just how this hobby is. its not a cheap hobby when you start to push the envelope.
that is my opinion on it.
if you want to know what i personally think is a good and safe power level for a todays everyday evo i would tell you around 380tq and 500hp in dynojet numbers.. anymore then that and you're asking for it.
you're gonna see guys making close to 500tq and 600hp+ on the stock block.. just because one engine can do it doesn't mean yours will too! so you have to be ready and understand the consequences when you decide to enter that playing level.
hopefully i helped someone maybe..
the stock frame setups aren't the best and the reason is because of course the stock frame is a small a/r and the smaller the a/r the quicker its going to respond and the more loss in top end you're going to experience.
but lets talk about the black, ef4, etc.. these are semi laggy turbos since they are pretty much 35R's bolted onto a stock frame housing.. on a 2L its gonna spool anywhere from say 4400 to 4900 depending on application, mods, so on.. we know bigger cams effect spoolup, other things can effect it as well.
are these stock frames to dangerous to run full tilt on stock block? in my opinion no..they are laggy enough to where you can control the torque curve to keep the engine together. there are so many things to do to help this.. 3 port tuning, pulling timing, tuning the spoolup crappy in general, and so on.
think of what you're doing though and then ask yourself if you think the stock block should run like this forever.. these engines come from mitsubishi with what?
60hp per cylinder approx? and once were done adding all our boltons, bigger turbo, and whatever else we can find in the aftermarket world we end up with well over 100hp per cylinder.. what people are doing these days with the stock block is insane, and in general the 4 cyl engine is being pushed and pushed to its limits by everyday people now.
this day and age everyone has 400hp+ it seems.. back years ago 400hp was big power.. these days its nothing.. and the fact the engine can still take it and stay together is amazing.
all in all what do i think? i think a black, ef4, equiv.. is the safest stock frame bolton turbo you want to use for big hp... are they the funnest? for some? yes.. for others? no..
at the end of the day it really comes down to personal preference what turbo best fits somebodies needs.
all the stock frame turbos are fun and perform well, it just comes down to what you want for your car.. and as i mentioned above, with 3 port tuning, timing, etc you can control the tq enough to extract additional power safely..
but nobody should think their engine is bullet proof if their still on a stock block.. even built engines with 1000hp rated i-beam rods let go.. when the engines ready to go it goes.. weather its tuning related or just fatigued hardware in general.. you are always going to pay to play.. thats just how this hobby is. its not a cheap hobby when you start to push the envelope.
that is my opinion on it.
if you want to know what i personally think is a good and safe power level for a todays everyday evo i would tell you around 380tq and 500hp in dynojet numbers.. anymore then that and you're asking for it.
you're gonna see guys making close to 500tq and 600hp+ on the stock block.. just because one engine can do it doesn't mean yours will too! so you have to be ready and understand the consequences when you decide to enter that playing level.
hopefully i helped someone maybe..
Nov 21, 2011, 06:16 PM
#39
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Nov 21, 2011, 06:16 PM
#40
So let me ask a question, lets say a car is making 450wtq.... Why is it bad if its making that torque at 3500rpm then 5000rpm?
I always hear people saying torque is better for stock motor when it comes in later, but dont understand why its better
I always hear people saying torque is better for stock motor when it comes in later, but dont understand why its better
Nov 21, 2011, 06:27 PM
#43
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Why does everyone say "keep the tq under 400 and you'll be ok"?! There are TONS of people, including myself who make much more torque than that and are fine. I make 487 ft/lb at 5k rpm and this car is my daily driver, I drive it accordingly most of the time but I do some spirited driving quite often as well. And before anyone says anything, yes I'm on a stock short block, stock transfer case, and stock transmission
Nov 21, 2011, 06:29 PM
#44
the earlier the torque hits the more blow the rods will experience.. especially if were talking 3500 peak tq vs 5000.. that would mean the tq is all coming on instantly like a huge BLOW vs the 5k peak tq will come on nice and easy and the further in the rpm you are the safer it is.
Nov 21, 2011, 06:30 PM
#45
Basically once one breaks at 400 thats the # they want to be aware of. I am over 400 tq myself and I drive like an old lady but its basically a safe # for tuners to go off of. I mean would you want to tune a car and go over and have it **** on the dyno and tell the guy uh sorry bout that?