Is the 6 speed better for road racing
Jan 24, 2012, 02:42 PM
#31
Here's a funny question ... one thing that we all feel is the ratios in the end ... the end being rpm out of the motor.
The 4B11T in the Evo X has been a really nice upgrade in that since it 'safely' spins roughly 1000rpm higher. The 5sp in the X hasn't had quite the same heartache as the VIII and IX.
I would love some responses in that is it better overall to try and eek out higher rpm in a 4G63 and keep a 5sp. or go for the 6sp.?
~j.
The 4B11T in the Evo X has been a really nice upgrade in that since it 'safely' spins roughly 1000rpm higher. The 5sp in the X hasn't had quite the same heartache as the VIII and IX.
I would love some responses in that is it better overall to try and eek out higher rpm in a 4G63 and keep a 5sp. or go for the 6sp.?
~j.
As for your other question, it doesn't make much sense. Are you asking if the two trannys have different rpm limits. I am confused what you are trying to get at. As has been pointed out, gearing slection can be very track dependent. My point was that a 6spd geared with a similar 1-4th and narrower 5th and 6th for the 120+ would be a solution to the high mph limitations of the 5spd. It would also make for quieter highway driving. That is, assuming someone would build one to hold the power.
Last edited by nollij; Jan 24, 2012 at 02:46 PM.
Jan 24, 2012, 07:32 PM
#33
Evolved Member
1000rpm in what regard? The engine or transmission? Your transmission has a safe limit to what rpm it can shift at. No point in pushing your motor over that unless you are running out 4th for a drag race
As for your other question, it doesn't make much sense. Are you asking if the two trannys have different rpm limits. I am confused what you are trying to get at. As has been pointed out, gearing slection can be very track dependent. My point was that a 6spd geared with a similar 1-4th and narrower 5th and 6th for the 120+ would be a solution to the high mph limitations of the 5spd. It would also make for quieter highway driving. That is, assuming someone would build one to hold the power.
As for your other question, it doesn't make much sense. Are you asking if the two trannys have different rpm limits. I am confused what you are trying to get at. As has been pointed out, gearing slection can be very track dependent. My point was that a 6spd geared with a similar 1-4th and narrower 5th and 6th for the 120+ would be a solution to the high mph limitations of the 5spd. It would also make for quieter highway driving. That is, assuming someone would build one to hold the power.
The exact gearing selection is extremely track dependant and can be worked around regardless by a combination of changing entry speeds, wastegate settings etc.
Jan 28, 2012, 02:27 PM
#36
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My feelings are to get as few gears to do the job, which implies the power plant is capable of a wide power band. Any time power is taken away from the road (to shift) acceleration is *not* happening.
I believe the 4B11T is a perfect example of this ... 5 spd. manual mated to a fairly wide powerband.
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To the OP, let us know what works for you.
Jan 30, 2012, 03:50 PM
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Jan 30, 2012, 04:08 PM
#38
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My friend is making 560whp on a dynojet with no problems on his 6 speed and the shep 6 speeds are supposed to have much longer ratios and handle 650whp if you can afford it then go for it. it'd be unique and fun
Jan 30, 2012, 04:17 PM
#39
I've yet to see a company with a 6 speed and any semblance of racing to suggest that the ratios are *not* optimized for road racing.
My feelings are to get as few gears to do the job, which implies the power plant is capable of a wide power band. Any time power is taken away from the road (to shift) acceleration is *not* happening.
My feelings are to get as few gears to do the job, which implies the power plant is capable of a wide power band. Any time power is taken away from the road (to shift) acceleration is *not* happening.
The Evo X comes in both a 5 and 6 speed. The 4B11T has nothing to do with this conversation. When you go aftermarket your powerband has a lot more to do with parts setup than stock 4B11T vs 4G63/4T.
Jan 31, 2012, 06:54 AM
#40
Evolved Member
I am not sure you have read anything from this thread. At some unknown speed/acceleration/gearing, it would be more beneficial to use an extra gear to shift at a more desireable point than to not. Of course, this depends on rev limit, powerband, etc. This has more to do with car combination and track speeds than a general rule of thumb. Why not have a 4 speed? Drag racers only use 1st-4th.
The Evo X comes in both a 5 and 6 speed. The 4B11T has nothing to do with this conversation. When you go aftermarket your powerband has a lot more to do with parts setup than stock 4B11T vs 4G63/4T.
The Evo X comes in both a 5 and 6 speed. The 4B11T has nothing to do with this conversation. When you go aftermarket your powerband has a lot more to do with parts setup than stock 4B11T vs 4G63/4T.
Jan 31, 2012, 07:36 AM
#41
I drive both an VIII MR and X MR on track and yes the motor does make a difference - this is not to be argumentative, just pragmatic. The power band of the 'smarter' 4B11T allows for a wider useable RPM range while the 4G63 is a bit pickier and if it's not above a certain RPM, I am forced to make an extra downshift, where the vvt of the X seems to make up for what the VIII lacks lower/mid range.
BTW, my VIII's trans is not cooled and it's been running strong for 6 years with well north of 400HP&TQ. I don't launch it, but I spend a lot, if not too much, time in 4th gear. I keep telling myself I'll install a cooler but I haven't yet. Yeah yeah, I know, it's a matter of time
BTW, my VIII's trans is not cooled and it's been running strong for 6 years with well north of 400HP&TQ. I don't launch it, but I spend a lot, if not too much, time in 4th gear. I keep telling myself I'll install a cooler but I haven't yet. Yeah yeah, I know, it's a matter of time
Jan 31, 2012, 08:15 AM
#44
Evolved Member
I drive both an VIII MR and X MR on track and yes the motor does make a difference - this is not to be argumentative, just pragmatic. The power band of the 'smarter' 4B11T allows for a wider useable RPM range while the 4G63 is a bit pickier and if it's not above a certain RPM, I am forced to make an extra downshift, where the vvt of the X seems to make up for what the VIII lacks lower/mid range.
BTW, my VIII's trans is not cooled and it's been running strong for 6 years with well north of 400HP&TQ. I don't launch it, but I spend a lot, if not too much, time in 4th gear. I keep telling myself I'll install a cooler but I haven't yet. Yeah yeah, I know, it's a matter of time
BTW, my VIII's trans is not cooled and it's been running strong for 6 years with well north of 400HP&TQ. I don't launch it, but I spend a lot, if not too much, time in 4th gear. I keep telling myself I'll install a cooler but I haven't yet. Yeah yeah, I know, it's a matter of time
Jan 31, 2012, 08:57 AM
#45
Furthermore, I commented on my power and transmission age in response to the OP. What I left out is that I have solid mounts all around and still my transmission feels great with 36k mi on a near dedicated track car which sees a few street miles. Maybe I'm smoother, maybe I'm luckier to have received a stronger transmission, or maybe I'm just really slow... My clutch laster 32k until I upgraded from the 20G-LT to the BBK Full, at which point it was onto an OS Geiken.
So for the OP, I drive many 5 and 6 speeds as an instructor. I don't like the rubbery feeling of a stock 5 speed; the stock 6 speed has a better feel to me. You can't ignore that quite a few people have blown the 6 speeds up, but you can't ignore that quite a few of us haven't either. Again, maybe we're smooth, maybe we're lucky, maybe we're slow. I'm very pleased with my 6 speed and have no desire to drive the 5 speed having driven many student's cars (specifically the stock 5 speed, never drove a Shep 5 speed that I can recall). So the net of it... I like the feel of the 6 speed, the extra gear of the 6spd (ratios), but the lower risk of the 5 speed is attractive. You mitigate some risk of the 6 speed blowing up with the addition of a cooler but to what extent, I don't know.