Dyno tune vs Email order
Jun 21, 2012, 11:43 AM
#17
So i think you are more interested in the accuracy of Virtual Dyno graphs vs a mustang dyno or dynoject correct? not actually the tunes. maybe? If so, some searching will show you this topic has been beaten to death, and everyone does nto agree on it.
All he stated can be done 100% remotely
Jun 21, 2012, 11:56 AM
#20
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Dyno numbers are just that NUMBERS. Get it tuned how ever you want and then see what it runs at the track and that my friends will tell you the whole story...lol
Jun 21, 2012, 11:59 AM
#21
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When you name a tuner that can hear detonation, feel engine vibration, smell an exhaust leak, hear a wastegate not opening, smell a burning oil leak, see a leaking front case, smell coolant, hear a whistling boost leak, see a coolant overflow spilling over, can react when the FPR line pops off the intake manifold, and can abort a pull in an emergency through the internet or email, let me know...
Jun 21, 2012, 12:15 PM
#22
When you name a tuner that can hear detonation, feel engine vibration, smell an exhaust leak, hear a wastegate not opening, smell a burning oil leak, see a leaking front case, smell coolant, hear a whistling boost leak, see a coolant overflow spilling over, can react when the FPR line pops off the intake manifold, and can abort a pull in an emergency through the internet or email, let me know...
I guess for the sheep who just buy these cars and have no idea whats going on under the hood. They should prob take it to a tuner or go buy a civic
But what you mentioned above any of us that have been around these cars long enough could spot and react without issue
Jun 21, 2012, 12:55 PM
#24
When you name a tuner that can hear detonation, feel engine vibration, smell an exhaust leak, hear a wastegate not opening, smell a burning oil leak, see a leaking front case, smell coolant, hear a whistling boost leak, see a coolant overflow spilling over, can react when the FPR line pops off the intake manifold, and can abort a pull in an emergency through the internet or email, let me know...
or do a boost pressure test virtually.
cb
Jun 21, 2012, 03:00 PM
#26
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Over the years I've had multiple cars tuned by different tuners on different dynos. I've also had email tunes. The best tunes I've had to date have been by email. Some of that is probably due to my learning curve and the industries learning curve.
I've also seen plenty of tuners miss things like boost leaks. I've had two cars tuned with multiple boost leaks. I'm not saying this is the tuners fault, but bringing your car to a shop to get tuned doesn't guarantee that they will take the time to check everything or notice every little thing wrong with your vehicle.
To the OP, if you aren't overly familiar with these cars yet and are still learning or prefer to bury your head in the sand and not learn much about the tuning process then I would suggest taking your car to a shop to get tuned. I would suggest though you take sometime to prepare your vehicle prior to the tune.
If you want to learn a little, are mechanically inclined, and have some patience, then an email tune might be the way to go.
As far as virtual dyno numbers vs real dyno numbers, I've seen plenty of evidence that if the VD is setup right it can read spot on compared to some real dynos. Since dynos aren't standardized across this industry some read lower and some read higher. You have to take the numbers with a grain of salt. The 1/4 mile trap speed is usually a good indicator of how much power your car is making.
I've also seen plenty of tuners miss things like boost leaks. I've had two cars tuned with multiple boost leaks. I'm not saying this is the tuners fault, but bringing your car to a shop to get tuned doesn't guarantee that they will take the time to check everything or notice every little thing wrong with your vehicle.
To the OP, if you aren't overly familiar with these cars yet and are still learning or prefer to bury your head in the sand and not learn much about the tuning process then I would suggest taking your car to a shop to get tuned. I would suggest though you take sometime to prepare your vehicle prior to the tune.
If you want to learn a little, are mechanically inclined, and have some patience, then an email tune might be the way to go.
As far as virtual dyno numbers vs real dyno numbers, I've seen plenty of evidence that if the VD is setup right it can read spot on compared to some real dynos. Since dynos aren't standardized across this industry some read lower and some read higher. You have to take the numbers with a grain of salt. The 1/4 mile trap speed is usually a good indicator of how much power your car is making.
Jun 21, 2012, 04:24 PM
#27
Some valid points here. But the answer depends on you, OP. Depends on your level of experience with this car. Its hard to pigeon-hole the type of evo owner that would opt for email vs dyno. I went to the dyno for years and am currently getting my first email tune, and loving it. Here are some reasons I converted:
- I like the idea of tuning on the road, where the car is driven, in real conditions.
- Got tired of driving anywhere from 3-6hrs to my shop, waiting around, having no part in the tuning process.
- One of the biggest advantages of email tuning... Make an appointment at your favorite shop...how much time do they allot you on the dyno? A few hrs? God forbid there's a problem...pack up the car, drive home and come back later....possibly pay again to finish up. Now, ask Tom how much time he's spent on my car in the past 4 WEEKS, and we're not even done yet. Over 30 emails, 7 or 8 different maps, each an improvement over the last. All that for a flat rate...you won't get service like that that on the dyno. I found out that my old tuner was basically using "off the shelf" maps and making only minor changes. The car always ran good and made average power. It's hard to tune a car in a few hours...
Since you're new, find a good shop (hit or miss in jerzey), take ur car there and have them set you up. Ask questions, be annoying, and try to learn something. If in a few years you still have this car and have gained some experience, and are able to do the basic/intermediate labor yourself (every evo owner should), try an email tune.
In conclusion, email tune (with the right tuner...only a few to choose from) is the best value. No time limit, real road conditions, use local gas, etc. But, you have to know what your doing...you need to know the ins and outs of your car and it needs to be in tip top running order. Will you get better results on the dyno vs email? No. Both are dependent on you and the tuner...pick wisely. Are dyno numbers more relaible? No. Numbers aren't worth crap. Please don't choose based on expectations of numbers.
It's always fun to see your car on the dyno, wondering what numbers appear on the screen (lol after I just said numbers aren't worth crap...it's still exciting tho dammit). But email tuning offers some advantages over dyno for sure. Go for the dyno, its a great experience...but email is where its at
- I like the idea of tuning on the road, where the car is driven, in real conditions.
- Got tired of driving anywhere from 3-6hrs to my shop, waiting around, having no part in the tuning process.
- One of the biggest advantages of email tuning... Make an appointment at your favorite shop...how much time do they allot you on the dyno? A few hrs? God forbid there's a problem...pack up the car, drive home and come back later....possibly pay again to finish up. Now, ask Tom how much time he's spent on my car in the past 4 WEEKS, and we're not even done yet. Over 30 emails, 7 or 8 different maps, each an improvement over the last. All that for a flat rate...you won't get service like that that on the dyno. I found out that my old tuner was basically using "off the shelf" maps and making only minor changes. The car always ran good and made average power. It's hard to tune a car in a few hours...
Since you're new, find a good shop (hit or miss in jerzey), take ur car there and have them set you up. Ask questions, be annoying, and try to learn something. If in a few years you still have this car and have gained some experience, and are able to do the basic/intermediate labor yourself (every evo owner should), try an email tune.
In conclusion, email tune (with the right tuner...only a few to choose from) is the best value. No time limit, real road conditions, use local gas, etc. But, you have to know what your doing...you need to know the ins and outs of your car and it needs to be in tip top running order. Will you get better results on the dyno vs email? No. Both are dependent on you and the tuner...pick wisely. Are dyno numbers more relaible? No. Numbers aren't worth crap. Please don't choose based on expectations of numbers.
It's always fun to see your car on the dyno, wondering what numbers appear on the screen (lol after I just said numbers aren't worth crap...it's still exciting tho dammit). But email tuning offers some advantages over dyno for sure. Go for the dyno, its a great experience...but email is where its at
Last edited by YogSaahoth; Jun 21, 2012 at 04:27 PM.
Jun 21, 2012, 09:48 PM
#28
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some input on this, a dyno tune vs street tune vs email tune, tuning a car is tuning a car. ultimately, the power that can be made doing it any of the 3 methods is going to be about the same assuming your tuner is competent.
HOWEVER, owning a shop and wrenching on cars and tuning them, i can assure you that 90% or more of the cars i see that come in for a tune, need more then just a tune. it almost never happens when i put my equipment on the car, don't need to pop the hood, and can tune a car to its full potential. almost always there are boost leaks, improperly adjust idle screws, misfiring plugs, wastegate actuators arent tight enough, exhaust leaks, rattling downpipes, timing belts not in time, you name it, i have seen it.
what does that mean for the power of the car? it means your not going to make the most power without fixing those issues first. an email tune can catch some of them (i.e. a BAD boost leak obviously will show extremely rich in boost on the logs). but the biggest difference in a tune and the drivability of the tune comes from making sure all those small issues are sorted out before or during the tune. if you arent capable of tuning the car on your own, more then likely you also aren't going to know if you have any of those problems either.
to me, thats where the money is better spent. making sure your tuner can see the car in person, can go over it with a fine tooth comb, and can have his eyes/ears on the car while hes tuning it.
if your no where near a capable tuner, then email is a great solution, just make sure you go over the car as good as you can before you have then tune it.
HOWEVER, owning a shop and wrenching on cars and tuning them, i can assure you that 90% or more of the cars i see that come in for a tune, need more then just a tune. it almost never happens when i put my equipment on the car, don't need to pop the hood, and can tune a car to its full potential. almost always there are boost leaks, improperly adjust idle screws, misfiring plugs, wastegate actuators arent tight enough, exhaust leaks, rattling downpipes, timing belts not in time, you name it, i have seen it.
what does that mean for the power of the car? it means your not going to make the most power without fixing those issues first. an email tune can catch some of them (i.e. a BAD boost leak obviously will show extremely rich in boost on the logs). but the biggest difference in a tune and the drivability of the tune comes from making sure all those small issues are sorted out before or during the tune. if you arent capable of tuning the car on your own, more then likely you also aren't going to know if you have any of those problems either.
to me, thats where the money is better spent. making sure your tuner can see the car in person, can go over it with a fine tooth comb, and can have his eyes/ears on the car while hes tuning it.
if your no where near a capable tuner, then email is a great solution, just make sure you go over the car as good as you can before you have then tune it.
There's nothing wrong with learning how to tune your car and I'm all for that, but the best results are ALWAYS going to come from a tune that's performed on a car that is mechanically 100%. Some of you may be competent mechanics, but for most it helps to have a good tech available through the tuning process. It doesn't take weeks of revisions when the car is in the hands of techs/tuner that work on these cars every single day. Period.
There are exceptions to every rule, but most will agree that a tuner being present during a tuning session will result in a better tune.
Last edited by E-SPEC INDUSTRIES; Jun 21, 2012 at 09:57 PM.
