Dyno tune vs Email order
Jun 21, 2012, 10:59 PM
#31
i believe that road, remote, and dyno all work well. having done all (3) myself.
I think its pretty clear good results can be seen through all 3 methods. if the person tuning the car has good knowledge and understands the platform hes tuning then chances are the results will be great with all (3) methods as seen day in and day out.
i don't see any disadvantages really with being tuned remotely/email.. you would think there were a handful and then some, but having done quite a few cars remote/email i can happily say there is not. from what im reading here it seems surprising to some.. understandable..
I found myself able to diagnose issues that even the owner of the car wasn't aware of at the time before we even began the tuning session.. or during the tuning session and so forth.. without ever even seeing the actual car just because i was asking questions and had him look over stuff prior to tuning that he never has before.
it all comes down to the tuner.. if he ask questions and covers his bases, and flags all possibilities of possible problems of the machine hes tuning whether it be remote, road, or on the dyno.. the issues will be resolved. he doesn't need to be there in person or see the car to do so 99% of the cases..
all the above is written unbiased and from direct experience.
hope that answered some of your questions.
I took the time to write what i did because i feel if someone went as far as to ask the question, they see it as a viable option to them, so they deserve to get some general feedback from someone who does what their questioning.
---
examples:
a good tuner will be able to diagnose almost anything without being there.. cars timing is off physically? its going to spool abnormally.
injectors clogged? stuck? latency will be off, so will scaling in general & afr & trim activity stft etc. fuel map will reflect irregulars if you get to WOT tuning. etc
if i see a car isn't ideal for tuning i explain to the customer what needs done, he goes and gets it done.. maybe he can do it himself? a lot of times they can.. if that may be the case he just saved himself a lot of $ potentially and gotten a free diagnosis at the same time without leaving his driveway / location and learning hands on at the same time.
im not saying remote tuning is for everybody, because its not.. but if you think there's an advantage to being there in person vs remote, power tuning wise .. as odd as it sounds.. theres not. unless the person is incapable of telling you what his cars doing, which i've yet to experience (Maybe 1 car that comes into mind, i can extract the same performance being there in person as i can remote not being there.
basically what im saying is, i will not tune a car that is not in full health.. the way i do things i have a huge check list the customer will see and do.. at the end of the day the car is running to the max of its ability. if its not.. the tune is kept for another day / time until its in full health.
i wouldn't be able to extract numbers like im extracting or have customers almost running 9's on stock blocks if remote tuning wasnt effective..
at the end of the day the tunes only as good as the tuner doing it, and if the tuner is good he will guide his customer into the right direction and will not tune the car with faults. he will give his customer time to correct and repair the flaws he finds with his customer.. that is how i do things remotely and that is how other remote tuners also do things!
hope that information is helpful for anyone that was curious how remote tuning works or if there are any risks in remote tuning as far as maximizing your setup.
I think its pretty clear good results can be seen through all 3 methods. if the person tuning the car has good knowledge and understands the platform hes tuning then chances are the results will be great with all (3) methods as seen day in and day out.
i don't see any disadvantages really with being tuned remotely/email.. you would think there were a handful and then some, but having done quite a few cars remote/email i can happily say there is not. from what im reading here it seems surprising to some.. understandable..
I found myself able to diagnose issues that even the owner of the car wasn't aware of at the time before we even began the tuning session.. or during the tuning session and so forth.. without ever even seeing the actual car just because i was asking questions and had him look over stuff prior to tuning that he never has before.
it all comes down to the tuner.. if he ask questions and covers his bases, and flags all possibilities of possible problems of the machine hes tuning whether it be remote, road, or on the dyno.. the issues will be resolved. he doesn't need to be there in person or see the car to do so 99% of the cases..
all the above is written unbiased and from direct experience.
hope that answered some of your questions.
I took the time to write what i did because i feel if someone went as far as to ask the question, they see it as a viable option to them, so they deserve to get some general feedback from someone who does what their questioning.
---
examples:
a good tuner will be able to diagnose almost anything without being there.. cars timing is off physically? its going to spool abnormally.
injectors clogged? stuck? latency will be off, so will scaling in general & afr & trim activity stft etc. fuel map will reflect irregulars if you get to WOT tuning. etc
if i see a car isn't ideal for tuning i explain to the customer what needs done, he goes and gets it done.. maybe he can do it himself? a lot of times they can.. if that may be the case he just saved himself a lot of $ potentially and gotten a free diagnosis at the same time without leaving his driveway / location and learning hands on at the same time.
im not saying remote tuning is for everybody, because its not.. but if you think there's an advantage to being there in person vs remote, power tuning wise .. as odd as it sounds.. theres not. unless the person is incapable of telling you what his cars doing, which i've yet to experience (Maybe 1 car that comes into mind, i can extract the same performance being there in person as i can remote not being there.
basically what im saying is, i will not tune a car that is not in full health.. the way i do things i have a huge check list the customer will see and do.. at the end of the day the car is running to the max of its ability. if its not.. the tune is kept for another day / time until its in full health.
i wouldn't be able to extract numbers like im extracting or have customers almost running 9's on stock blocks if remote tuning wasnt effective..
at the end of the day the tunes only as good as the tuner doing it, and if the tuner is good he will guide his customer into the right direction and will not tune the car with faults. he will give his customer time to correct and repair the flaws he finds with his customer.. that is how i do things remotely and that is how other remote tuners also do things!
hope that information is helpful for anyone that was curious how remote tuning works or if there are any risks in remote tuning as far as maximizing your setup.
Jun 21, 2012, 11:12 PM
#32
You would send your existing rom to your tuner off your ecu so they can transfer the immobilizer data and any other data needed for your new rom..
some tuners just use others roms and edit them.. i on the other hand will give a new rom to everyone i tune custom.. everyone has their own way of doing things. some do what i do, some dont.
you dont just jump right into power tuning. you monitor fuel trims, get driveability optimized and then when the persons happy and content the way the cars operating then you can jump into a partial power pull, from there you can do a full power pull..
basically thats how it works and from there its rinse and repeat until max power is extracted. typically a car takes 2-3hrs to fully tune if everything goes smoothly between the customer and tuner. sometimes much longer.
Jun 22, 2012, 12:37 AM
#33
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i believe that road, remote, and dyno all work well. having done all (3) myself.
I think its pretty clear good results can be seen through all 3 methods. if the person tuning the car has good knowledge and understands the platform hes tuning then chances are the results will be great with all (3) methods as seen day in and day out.
i don't see any disadvantages really with being tuned remotely/email.. you would think there were a handful and then some, but having done quite a few cars remote/email i can happily say there is not. from what im reading here it seems surprising to some.. understandable..
I found myself able to diagnose issues that even the owner of the car wasn't aware of at the time before we even began the tuning session.. or during the tuning session and so forth.. without ever even seeing the actual car just because i was asking questions and had him look over stuff prior to tuning that he never has before.
it all comes down to the tuner.. if he ask questions and covers his bases, and flags all possibilities of possible problems of the machine hes tuning whether it be remote, road, or on the dyno.. the issues will be resolved. he doesn't need to be there in person or see the car to do so 99% of the cases..
all the above is written unbiased and from direct experience.
hope that answered some of your questions.
I took the time to write what i did because i feel if someone went as far as to ask the question, they see it as a viable option to them, so they deserve to get some general feedback from someone who does what their questioning.
---
examples:
a good tuner will be able to diagnose almost anything without being there.. cars timing is off physically? its going to spool abnormally.
injectors clogged? stuck? latency will be off, so will scaling in general & afr & trim activity stft etc. fuel map will reflect irregulars if you get to WOT tuning. etc
if i see a car isn't ideal for tuning i explain to the customer what needs done, he goes and gets it done.. maybe he can do it himself? a lot of times they can.. if that may be the case he just saved himself a lot of $ potentially and gotten a free diagnosis at the same time without leaving his driveway / location and learning hands on at the same time.
im not saying remote tuning is for everybody, because its not.. but if you think there's an advantage to being there in person vs remote, power tuning wise .. as odd as it sounds.. theres not. unless the person is incapable of telling you what his cars doing, which i've yet to experience (Maybe 1 car that comes into mind, i can extract the same performance being there in person as i can remote not being there.
basically what im saying is, i will not tune a car that is not in full health.. the way i do things i have a huge check list the customer will see and do.. at the end of the day the car is running to the max of its ability. if its not.. the tune is kept for another day / time until its in full health.
i wouldn't be able to extract numbers like im extracting or have customers almost running 9's on stock blocks if remote tuning wasnt effective..
at the end of the day the tunes only as good as the tuner doing it, and if the tuner is good he will guide his customer into the right direction and will not tune the car with faults. he will give his customer time to correct and repair the flaws he finds with his customer.. that is how i do things remotely and that is how other remote tuners also do things!
hope that information is helpful for anyone that was curious how remote tuning works or if there are any risks in remote tuning as far as maximizing your setup.
I think its pretty clear good results can be seen through all 3 methods. if the person tuning the car has good knowledge and understands the platform hes tuning then chances are the results will be great with all (3) methods as seen day in and day out.
i don't see any disadvantages really with being tuned remotely/email.. you would think there were a handful and then some, but having done quite a few cars remote/email i can happily say there is not. from what im reading here it seems surprising to some.. understandable..
I found myself able to diagnose issues that even the owner of the car wasn't aware of at the time before we even began the tuning session.. or during the tuning session and so forth.. without ever even seeing the actual car just because i was asking questions and had him look over stuff prior to tuning that he never has before.
it all comes down to the tuner.. if he ask questions and covers his bases, and flags all possibilities of possible problems of the machine hes tuning whether it be remote, road, or on the dyno.. the issues will be resolved. he doesn't need to be there in person or see the car to do so 99% of the cases..
all the above is written unbiased and from direct experience.
hope that answered some of your questions.
I took the time to write what i did because i feel if someone went as far as to ask the question, they see it as a viable option to them, so they deserve to get some general feedback from someone who does what their questioning.
---
examples:
a good tuner will be able to diagnose almost anything without being there.. cars timing is off physically? its going to spool abnormally.
injectors clogged? stuck? latency will be off, so will scaling in general & afr & trim activity stft etc. fuel map will reflect irregulars if you get to WOT tuning. etc
if i see a car isn't ideal for tuning i explain to the customer what needs done, he goes and gets it done.. maybe he can do it himself? a lot of times they can.. if that may be the case he just saved himself a lot of $ potentially and gotten a free diagnosis at the same time without leaving his driveway / location and learning hands on at the same time.
im not saying remote tuning is for everybody, because its not.. but if you think there's an advantage to being there in person vs remote, power tuning wise .. as odd as it sounds.. theres not. unless the person is incapable of telling you what his cars doing, which i've yet to experience (Maybe 1 car that comes into mind, i can extract the same performance being there in person as i can remote not being there.
basically what im saying is, i will not tune a car that is not in full health.. the way i do things i have a huge check list the customer will see and do.. at the end of the day the car is running to the max of its ability. if its not.. the tune is kept for another day / time until its in full health.
i wouldn't be able to extract numbers like im extracting or have customers almost running 9's on stock blocks if remote tuning wasnt effective..
at the end of the day the tunes only as good as the tuner doing it, and if the tuner is good he will guide his customer into the right direction and will not tune the car with faults. he will give his customer time to correct and repair the flaws he finds with his customer.. that is how i do things remotely and that is how other remote tuners also do things!
hope that information is helpful for anyone that was curious how remote tuning works or if there are any risks in remote tuning as far as maximizing your setup.
Jun 22, 2012, 01:08 AM
#34
Programmer cable and a laptop that's capable of running evoscan.
You would send your existing rom to your tuner off your ecu so they can transfer the immobilizer data and any other data needed for your new rom..
some tuners just use others roms and edit them.. i on the other hand will give a new rom to everyone i tune custom.. everyone has their own way of doing things. some do what i do, some dont.
you dont just jump right into power tuning. you monitor fuel trims, get driveability optimized and then when the persons happy and content the way the cars operating then you can jump into a partial power pull, from there you can do a full power pull..
basically thats how it works and from there its rinse and repeat until max power is extracted. typically a car takes 2-3hrs to fully tune if everything goes smoothly between the customer and tuner. sometimes much longer.
You would send your existing rom to your tuner off your ecu so they can transfer the immobilizer data and any other data needed for your new rom..
some tuners just use others roms and edit them.. i on the other hand will give a new rom to everyone i tune custom.. everyone has their own way of doing things. some do what i do, some dont.
you dont just jump right into power tuning. you monitor fuel trims, get driveability optimized and then when the persons happy and content the way the cars operating then you can jump into a partial power pull, from there you can do a full power pull..
basically thats how it works and from there its rinse and repeat until max power is extracted. typically a car takes 2-3hrs to fully tune if everything goes smoothly between the customer and tuner. sometimes much longer.
One last Q whats ecuboost ? Is boost controlled by the ecu now ? I read your webpage on remote tune but man ive got a lot to read.
Jun 22, 2012, 02:41 AM
#35
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Evoscan is a program used to log data to see what a car is doing. It allows for logging of different parameters to provide information to allow a person to see how well the car is running and make changes as necessary.
http://www.evoscan.com/evoscan-gps-o...ogger-software
Ecuflash is a program that is used to reflash the ecu with changes that were noted during datalogging. It allows a person to tune a car. You will want a tactrix cable linked below. I would also recommend a wideband 02 gauge like the AEM Uego.
http://www.tactrix.com/index.php?opt...d=36&Itemid=58
http://www.tactrix.com/index.php?opt...id=6&Itemid=53
Virtual dyno is a program that will show "virtual" dyno numbers based on a datalog.
http://www.bradbarnhill.com/projects/VirtualDyno/
Ecuboost is boost being controlled by the ecu and a usually an aftermarket 3 port boost solenoid like the Grimmspeed. But there are other 3 ports solenoids and the factory solenoid can be used in some case as well.
How is it you have all of those mods listed and don't know anything about the tuning? Did you recently purchase the car with all of those mods?
http://www.evoscan.com/evoscan-gps-o...ogger-software
Ecuflash is a program that is used to reflash the ecu with changes that were noted during datalogging. It allows a person to tune a car. You will want a tactrix cable linked below. I would also recommend a wideband 02 gauge like the AEM Uego.
http://www.tactrix.com/index.php?opt...d=36&Itemid=58
http://www.tactrix.com/index.php?opt...id=6&Itemid=53
Virtual dyno is a program that will show "virtual" dyno numbers based on a datalog.
http://www.bradbarnhill.com/projects/VirtualDyno/
Ecuboost is boost being controlled by the ecu and a usually an aftermarket 3 port boost solenoid like the Grimmspeed. But there are other 3 ports solenoids and the factory solenoid can be used in some case as well.
How is it you have all of those mods listed and don't know anything about the tuning? Did you recently purchase the car with all of those mods?
Jun 22, 2012, 03:45 AM
#37
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I haven't had much luck with the newest version of evoscan. It was way to slow logging data for me from some reason. Could be some settings, but I choose to use both programs.
Jun 22, 2012, 05:35 AM
#38
All good info.
Thanks TScomp for enlighting me on what you do
At the moment my cars is running like crap I changed the Plugs from BPR7ES
to BPR8ES both Gapped @ .24
added a ETS LICP pipe
new intake (HKS to ARC)
adjusted my bov (single spring mod and tightened) it got rid of neutral to stop stall and most of my surge/flutter
I'm gonna do a boost leak test this weekend so I guess I'll go from there.
Thanks TScomp for enlighting me on what you do
At the moment my cars is running like crap I changed the Plugs from BPR7ES
to BPR8ES both Gapped @ .24
added a ETS LICP pipe
new intake (HKS to ARC)
adjusted my bov (single spring mod and tightened) it got rid of neutral to stop stall and most of my surge/flutter
I'm gonna do a boost leak test this weekend so I guess I'll go from there.
Jun 22, 2012, 06:12 AM
#40
Seems like when I get a dyno tune after I change my set up on my dsm it would be a all-out most power the car can possibly make tune.( which is ok because its mostly a drag car). However I got my evo done (remotely) my tune got covered in every boost level road condition uphill, downhill, stop lights, interstate speeds…. I mean, we made sure my fuel trims were spot on and made sure it was going into closed loop rite … Show me a dyno where they reset your trims and work on your e85 cold start worm up tune…drivability is what I’m into...I would much rather have that than a few numbers. Remote tuning is generally cheaper when you’re not paying someone to strap and unstrap your car. It is key that you know your car and that it is running 100% before the remote tune because that is what the tuner is expecting to start turning off with. Just my experience.
Jun 22, 2012, 06:16 AM
#42
we will not put a car on our dyno without a pressure test- we find leaks 8 out of 10 time- even when a client says "yes I tested"..
its hard for someone to diagnose a bov that may leak or hang when it gets hot... etc... through an e-tune...
a proper dyno tune should be- pressure tested- oil checked- etc... and then followed up with a street test-
and no tuning should be overin 4 pulls-
cb
its hard for someone to diagnose a bov that may leak or hang when it gets hot... etc... through an e-tune...
a proper dyno tune should be- pressure tested- oil checked- etc... and then followed up with a street test-
and no tuning should be overin 4 pulls-
cb
Jun 22, 2012, 06:35 AM
#44
some input on this, a dyno tune vs street tune vs email tune, tuning a car is tuning a car. ultimately, the power that can be made doing it any of the 3 methods is going to be about the same assuming your tuner is competent.
HOWEVER, owning a shop and wrenching on cars and tuning them, i can assure you that 90% or more of the cars i see that come in for a tune, need more then just a tune. it almost never happens when i put my equipment on the car, don't need to pop the hood, and can tune a car to its full potential. almost always there are boost leaks, improperly adjust idle screws, misfiring plugs, wastegate actuators arent tight enough, exhaust leaks, rattling downpipes, timing belts not in time, you name it, i have seen it.
what does that mean for the power of the car? it means your not going to make the most power without fixing those issues first. an email tune can catch some of them (i.e. a BAD boost leak obviously will show extremely rich in boost on the logs). but the biggest difference in a tune and the drivability of the tune comes from making sure all those small issues are sorted out before or during the tune. if you arent capable of tuning the car on your own, more then likely you also aren't going to know if you have any of those problems either.
to me, thats where the money is better spent. making sure your tuner can see the car in person, can go over it with a fine tooth comb, and can have his eyes/ears on the car while hes tuning it.
if your no where near a capable tuner, then email is a great solution, just make sure you go over the car as good as you can before you have then tune it.
HOWEVER, owning a shop and wrenching on cars and tuning them, i can assure you that 90% or more of the cars i see that come in for a tune, need more then just a tune. it almost never happens when i put my equipment on the car, don't need to pop the hood, and can tune a car to its full potential. almost always there are boost leaks, improperly adjust idle screws, misfiring plugs, wastegate actuators arent tight enough, exhaust leaks, rattling downpipes, timing belts not in time, you name it, i have seen it.
what does that mean for the power of the car? it means your not going to make the most power without fixing those issues first. an email tune can catch some of them (i.e. a BAD boost leak obviously will show extremely rich in boost on the logs). but the biggest difference in a tune and the drivability of the tune comes from making sure all those small issues are sorted out before or during the tune. if you arent capable of tuning the car on your own, more then likely you also aren't going to know if you have any of those problems either.
to me, thats where the money is better spent. making sure your tuner can see the car in person, can go over it with a fine tooth comb, and can have his eyes/ears on the car while hes tuning it.
if your no where near a capable tuner, then email is a great solution, just make sure you go over the car as good as you can before you have then tune it.
Jun 22, 2012, 06:37 AM
#45
When you name a tuner that can hear detonation, feel engine vibration, smell an exhaust leak, hear a wastegate not opening, smell a burning oil leak, see a leaking front case, smell coolant, hear a whistling boost leak, see a coolant overflow spilling over, can react when the FPR line pops off the intake manifold, and can abort a pull in an emergency through the internet or email, let me know...