Mud

I think the point that none of you guys are understanding is that the UK Evo guys dont really give a **** about 1/4 mile times, we use our evos to race on circuits and as daily drivers, and also we DONT CARE about massive BHP cos thats not what we are after.
Raising the boost to 2 bar just for the dyno so you guys can get 400+hp doesnt prove anything, its what happens on the circuit that proves how good the car and the driver is.
Oh and we have here lots of 1000 PLUS BHP Skylines, but that doesnt prove the UK tuners are better than the Jap ones......

kcevo

iTrader: (11)

Now that is just ignorant, why the hell would you spend all of the time and money trying to make the most power possible at a safe level(no knock) on the dyno then go to the track and not want to see how that power performs (circuit, 1/4 mile, 1/8 mile, autocross, etc.).

If I wanted a dyno king, I would buy an old big block for dirt cheap and put a couple huge *** turbos on it just to see how much power that I could make. Hell for half the price of an evo this could have been accomplished.

HobieKopek

iTrader: (8)

Just don't count out Australia and New Zealand in the big power import competition (if there is one).

Not to get off track or anything. I think the whole discrepency thing has been pretty well explained.

limey

It has been my observation that the UK evo's seem to be a lot stronger than the US ones....this is almost certainly to do with the better quality fuel sold in the uk, the ECU seems to be able to be mapped better because of this. I have witnessed a evo 7 running 12.6:1 A/F ratio at 6500 rpm with absolutely no knock activity, a mixture I have only seen run using c16 in the US..my 2c

Bom's Evo

iTrader: (14)

the usa is always going to make more power. its all about drag racing here. over in japan its a different story. a balanced car is better for the track.

here you have 500whp turbo civics for straight lines. over japan its 230whp N/A for the track. But when the japanese do drag race they do it right. HKS outlawed supra and skylines.

ShapeGSX

A:F ratio is only one part of the knock equation. How much timing advance was it running? Running lean for the sake of being lean doesn't always produce the most power or torque.

And for the guy who says they go more for torque in the UK, you can't make big power without big torque on an engine that only revs to 7500RPM.

metaphysical

iTrader: (3)

The DSM's in similar "street form" to Norris's Evo are running low 9's... Tym from Buschur has a street DSM that made 821 Whp. There should be abit more 8 second cars this year.

Once the season opens (late march) expect 10's then 9's.

Check out some of the winter build-ups with the 2JZ on supraforums. There are going to be ALOT of 1000Hp Supra's driving around.

limey

I take your point but this specific evo was not running lean for the sake of running lean it had been mapped properly by ralliart for the purpose of being a very quick and useable street car..why burn fuel if you don't need to?

EVO-ERIC

iTrader: (1)

what nobody understands in america is that the evo was never a 1/4 mile car so why make it one. yes i want my car to be fast off the line but the road course is what this car is all about and dont forget it. you can have all the hp in the world but it wont help you take that corner any faster then the next car. that is why the japanese and uk tuners are the best by far because their car can beat you on the 1/4 and the road course, endurance race anyday of the week. You purchased the wrong car if you wanted a 1/4 mile car, but if you can do both 1/4 and track racing then more props to you.

Mud

YES you can make high BHP without making high torque figures!
I have seen cars in the UK making 380bhp but only 320ft/lbs of torque and others making 380/380.
To be honest you have to be a GREAT GREAT driver to be able to control and drive a car with more than 400ft/lbs, to have a useable and drivable car (with a smooth boost curve) then you dont want more than 380brake and 360 torque.
Simply reflashing the ECU and then raising boost to 1.6-1.8 bar is not good modding and in the long term very bad for the health of the engine.

EVO-ERIC spot on mate.

ShapeGSX

My point was that the guys who made 411hp on the stock turbo ALSO made 400ft-lbs of torque.


So those are the magic controllable numbers. And you arrived at this through tons of testing? Or was it just a convenient number that was lower than what the car at AMS put out? Sour grapes.

ShapeGSX

So you are saying that US tuners simply can't make a well-rounded car? Roadrace Engineering would beg to differ, I bet.

I've never been to a roadcourse. I don't care to go to one, either. My car is my daily driver, and I've seen a number of equipment failures take out the cars of some of my friends. As well, the consumables of road course driving are quite expensive over time. Going through a set of $80 brake pads per day, and a set of $600 to $800 tires gets expensive very fast.

I do drag race, and I do autocross, however. Just because a car is good at drag racing doesn't mean it can't also handle, and vice versa.

Mud

LOL LOL!!!

Mr Shape, here in the UK we have more than 10yrs of Evo tuning, can you say the same?
My quote of 400fl/lbs had nothing to do with this car you are talking about, I didnt even know that cars torque figures.
I have driven Evos 4, 5, 6 and 7 which had more than 400torque and so am talking from personal experience. The figure is also based on talks I have had with experienced tuners in the UK and I think most people who know there stuff about Evos' would agree with me.

shirokuma

There is simply different goals to tuning.

If you were tuning for 30 minute + sessions of circuit racing on pump gas, you would definitely have a different level of power than a car tuned for race gas and a 12 second run. It does not mean either one is better or worse, for people tuning for a 12 second run dont need a circuit tune, and vice versa.

From what I have read and seen, the UK and Japan tunes for the circuit far more often than for drag racing. That does lend itself to different mindsets and power levels.

It seems to me that you should choose how you tune your car based on that as well - if you are tuning for the dragstrip, pick a tuner that has more experience and focus towards that. And if you are tuning for the circuit, pick the ones that concentrate there.

Also remember that some things are easier to come by for the average enthusiast in the states than other countries. Race gas and NOS are much more popular there for that reason - I would have a relatively difficult time getting my hands on either here in Japan. Tuners are unlikely to tune for either for this reason - I rarely hear or see such for that reason. Also, drag racing is nowhere near as popular - when it does come to race activities, it tends to be circuit racing if it is legal, mountain and freeway racing if it is illegal. Then there are many, many other factors that simply change the way things are done here.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

metaphysical

iTrader: (3)

Ship your car over here and we'll be happy to hand you your ***!

Anyhow, you sound like a moon dyno tuner. Keep in mind, these cars aren't running air/water intercoolers and T88 Turbo's...so the whole "track" tuning thing can be thrown out the window. Your running the same body as us...so the difference in track performance is in the amount of money you spend on tires/brakes/suspension/driving lessons. The DSM has been here since 1991. So that makes 13 years