My previous VIII I used Brad Penn 10w-40 as was recommended per my tuner and other Evo enthusiasts. I've still got 10 qts. left, so that's what the next one will see as well.

 

Everyone can benefit from the initially faster flowing oil/ superior start up lubrication that 0w motor oils' provide on cold starts. Regardless of ambient temp.

But there is a more benefits when running Mobil 0w-40 oil specifically. It has better lubricating properties that will keep your journel bearing type turbo charger more lubricated (or protection from wear) due to its higher ZDDP content. Mobil 1 0w-40 European motor oil doesn't have low ZDDP content as compared to Mobil 1 5w30 or 10w30.

Summary : These motor oils (5w & 10w-30) were changed years ago to meet EPA standards/ laws, which I return reduced ZDDP content in modern oil to extend a catalytic converters' lifespan and have less environmental damage.. Hence their green API starburst symbol and 0w-40 has a black starburst (which is Euro spec). ZDDP was initially thought to be only useful back in the days for flat tappet motors, where every bit of lubrication was needed. But, journel bearing turbos also benefit greatly from better lubrication or higher ZDDP content as well, especially at higher boost levels where more load is exerted on the thrust plate/ journel bearing.

Oil analysis' of 5w &10w-30 show around 800ppm of ZDDP. Which is adequate for stock Evos. But... Mobile 0w 40 has around 1100ppm. FP recommends oils with ZDDP content of 1000ppm or more usually, and it becomes more important as boost increases. Mobil 1 0w 40 is the best over the counter oil, that has the highest ZDDP content and IMO best oil for us guys autoxing/ DD.

 

Mobile1 0W30. No issues at all. Just hit 75k yesterday. Daily driven in Miami

 

Brad penn 10w30

 

I posed this question in another (https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...motor-oil.html) - im juggling between going back to 0w30 SSO or 10w30 ZROD (with extra zddp) - would be nice to have a mix of both worlds. Like I mention though, I don't really see a reason why someone shouldn't use 0w30.

 

I run Brad Penn 10w-30.
Forced performance recommends this as well as some others. They got an entire list of recommended oils. Which has been posted above.

 

Kyoo, there is only benefit's to be had when running a 0w oil. Faster lubrication upon startup. There really isnt a debate. Viscosity modifiers have evolved over the years, and people still have the notion a 0w oil will have a higher or faster shear rate than, say a 10w. But these concerns were primarily for dyno oil or conventional. Most leading car manufacturers recommend synthetic 0w as the yearly fill for their vehicles for a reason. 0w-40 Mobil is a great choice. Dont rule it out. Amsoil SSO 0w-30 has great shear rate or a high HTHS rate, from the oil analysis' I've seen. Both Mobil 0w-40 and the SSO oils' have plenty of ZDDP for us stock turbo applications. Both additive packages hold up well. But when I was using Amsoil SSO 0w-30 I would consume more oil than I usually would. Instead of 1 quart per 3000 miles (couple auto x's & DD'ing), I would use almost 2 quarts, that was when I was using Mobil 10w-30. That alone steered me away from Amsoil. Amsoil gets better with age IMO... I never got an oil analysis from Blackstone while using this oil, so I dont really have numbers to back my statement up. I can tell you I have had great oil analysis' from my Mobil 0w-40 and WIX combo and I barely consume over .5 quart during my regular 3000 OCI. Also I like spending 7$ a quart vs 11$ and changing my oil frequently, this topic has been covered on Evom before though.

Also, I see you mentioned amsoils' Z-rod oil, which has extremely high ZDDP content. Which is great, but more ZDDP doesn't necessarily mean better. This oil is meant for race engines, period. Or some loud, loose, flat tappet, cammed, supercharged V8 lol. I could see its use in modified stock housing turbos that have journal bearings also (ie red/ black). But even then, thats over kill if you DD and you have one of these turbos. Amsoil SSO or Dominator would be better for that application. That is just my opinion though.

Another note, when using Mobil 10w-30 my operating temps were around 90 C (194*f)while driving around normally. Using Mobil 0w-40, my temps seem to stay right at 70 C (164 *f). This is me eye balling my MR gauge cluster, while not being the most accurate (ie oil temp probe senser should be on oil filter housing not in drain pan), you can definitely see the temperature increase. Amsoil SSO 0w-30 provided similar results (~ 70C)

 

The way I understand it without sounding like a chemist is to say that to make multi-viscosity oils they added these molecules that look like little springs. The springs unwind when the oil is hot making the oil thicker than it would otherwise be.

These special molecules can be big or small. Big works better meaning you need less but the big molecules tend to shear which is another way of saying they break. Eventually you have a single weight oil. Small molecules are resistant to shear but you need to add a lot more.

When formulating a synthetic oil the producer has to figure the oil might have a long drain interval. So, the mix is going to include the light viscosity indexer molecules so that they will last. This means you need to add a lot.

My FSM recommends two synthetic oils for normal driving,10W30 for normal and winter temperatures and 20W40 for very hot temperatures. Notice there is a pattern here, both oil recommendations do not span a large viscosity range. I suggest there is a reason for this - viscosity indexer is not oil and does not lubricate the engine. The more you use the less lubrication you have.

 

Very good points made. I agree with you, im not arguing. I would never suggest using a 0w-60 oil... But it's unfair to generalize about a 0w vs 20w rated oil, in flow/ shear characteristics, without brand naming because each oil is created differently... Castrols viscosity modifiers may not be the same as say Redlines would.. Although the gap in viscosity (ie cold W vs true weight) does usually pronounce shear resistance, this still generally follows older car oil myths. I still feel this applies to cheap synthetics, that use cheap base stocks, and conventional oils.

I am advocating the use of Mobil 0w-40, only because I believe it shears to a good weight, has great yearly startup yearly flow characteristic's, and has a great additive package (ie ZDDP, moly etc..). Specifically for use in our applications, stockish journal bearing turbo 4g63's, I believe this oil is the best OTC oil available. I am always open suggestions to better oils though. Also I'm a firm believer in following FSM protecols, I just believe since 0w-40 wasn't available during the introduction of the Evo, it wasn't an option. But note, per the new FSM, Mobil 0w-40 is recommended for Evo 10.

Here is a quote from BITOG, that supports both positions

"Why not a 0W or 5W; because it gets increasingly difficult to have an oil that flows when cold AND!!! maintains sufficient viscosity when hot. The goals are not mutually compatible.

You will almost never find a 0W30 conventional oil, because the cold weather characteristics necessary to meet the 0W designation do not allow the oil to be a 30 weight when hot.

5W30 is possible with conventional oils, but to do so requires fairly large quantities of viscosity modifiers. These additives prevent the oil from thinning at operating temperature. They do tend to wear out and breakdown; this is where the term "shearing" comes from. The oil (really the viscosity modifiers) shears down, becoming thinner at operating temp., and this can lead to higher consumption and/or deposits.

Synthetic oil is, by its chemical composition, better at meeting the cold/hot requirements. A 10W30 synthetic may in fact be a straight weight oil that, through its chemistry, can still meet the cold temperature pumpability and cranking requirements AND! be a 30 weight at 100c. Still, large spreads like the 5W50 do require the same viscosity modifiers to perform at both ends of the temperature spectrum, and shear can be a problem with some of these synthetics as well.

What to do...use oil (especially conventional)with the narrowest spread possible; 5w30 and 10W40 can be more likely to breakdown, given the above info. 10W30, 15W40, and 20W50 tend to be more stable for longer periods of time. " BITOG

 

I'm surprised not many mentioned rotella t6 5w-40. Very good oil.

 

Go on any Subie forum LOL

Yea all I use in the Fozzy XT. Subies love that oil and UOA's I have done on it in the Fozzy have come back stellar

 

Good post...........

My car is an '03 so already my FSM and Owners Manual are 10 years old. Oil has to have changed a little in that time. But, still, I wanted to point out what the engineers were doing. First, the oil data they had was from the past at that time (way in the past now) and the projected engine use was then in the future. Oil might get better in the future or it might become worse. The future is always unknown. What they needed to do is generalize, the car was sold all over the world and the brands available vary by country. Under all circumstances they need to recommend oils that would at least serve the user. I think it is interesting to see and think about their choices.

 

Thanks barneyb, this is undoubtedly true. I stand corrected about the generalizing part, all the mitsu engineers had to generalize about the quality differentiations/ variables (oil composition) between country to country and MFG to MFG. In order to pick a suitable oil for our application. Now its up to the end user, or us, to find the best oil for our application ( in our case Evo 8/9). And this is obviously done from ones own personal research and findings. I was just trying to share my findings for Mobil 0w-40, and how I think it's a great OTC for our Evo's. I'm not sponsored nor paid by Mobil although I wish I was. I'm interested to see results from Castrols' newly released 0w-40 oil as well.

Edit: it seems Castrol has been discussed on BITOG since the last time I looked. In summary, Castrol 0w-40 < Mobil 0w-40. I'm also not very fond of Castrol, since they don't release all their information, like HTHS rates. I think information like this is crucial, especially when deciding which oil to use.

 

Great oil. Great shear rate or HTHS (high temp/ high shear). But this oil has wayyy to much detergents for our application. It's a diesel oil for a reason. That is just my personal opinion.

 

I was looking at the Amsoil Site last spring and read they sell a 10W-40 synthetic oil for stationary engines that contains no viscosity indexer. The stuff just comes from the plant that way. So, I contacted the Amsoil Guy who frequents the oil threads and said why don't you package that for cars. He said he would see what he could do.

Nothing since but still hoping.