Carbon fiber hood heavier than stock? NO!
Jul 13, 2013, 10:51 AM
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Carbon fiber hood heavier than stock? NO!
Revision to my opening statement:
VIS carbon fiber hood: Heavier than stock? NO!
OK, so I have been hearing since I joined this site in 2007 the following:
And many paraphrases of the above.
Yet when I asked multiple times for people to quote their sources, it always was
Bonus points if you can tell me where that last quote it from...
ANYWAYS, no one could ever tell me weights, or their sources.....
So, I was involved in an accident a couple months ago, where I was paid out for the damages. Rather than give the money to a body shop, as I can do the paint and body work myself, I decided to buy all the parts (and some cool upgrades at the time), and do the work myself. (one of these "upgrades" is a genuine VIS carbon fiber OEM hood purchased from VIS directly (I used to be a VIS dealer, so I got a kick **** price!!)
Today I am stripping the banged up front end, and painting the new parts...
In the process. I decided to weigh the hoods.
STOCK hood. (with everything on it, like it came from the factory such as windshield washer nozzles, insulation, stickers, vent, under vent, etc)
24.6 pounds
VIS Hood (with windshield washer nozzles, OEM vent, OEM under vent, stickers, and cool VIS serial number plate, and these ultra cool yet heavy hood latches from quick-latch)
24.4 pounds
NOW... The argument could be made, that if I took the insulation off of the OEM hood, and placed it on the OEM hood, that they would come in equal, but the insulation weighs almost nothing (.1-.2lbs)... I could counter... if I didn't put those ever so heavy hood pins on the car (they are milled steel and aluminum) I could argue that the VIS would be at least 1 lb lighter. so it's negligible.
The definative answer is.
They weigh almost identically the same!
VIS carbon fiber hood: Heavier than stock? NO!
OK, so I have been hearing since I joined this site in 2007 the following:
Why go carbon fiber hood? They are heavier than stock!
Dude, carbon fiber is heavier than our awesome aluminum hoods
Carbon fiber hoods are WAY heavier than stock!
Yet when I asked multiple times for people to quote their sources, it always was
Well, (name shop here) says they are
I had a friend who told me
Um, my best friend's sister's boyfriends brother heard from this guy who knows this kid, who's going with this girl who...
ANYWAYS, no one could ever tell me weights, or their sources.....
So, I was involved in an accident a couple months ago, where I was paid out for the damages. Rather than give the money to a body shop, as I can do the paint and body work myself, I decided to buy all the parts (and some cool upgrades at the time), and do the work myself. (one of these "upgrades" is a genuine VIS carbon fiber OEM hood purchased from VIS directly (I used to be a VIS dealer, so I got a kick **** price!!)
Today I am stripping the banged up front end, and painting the new parts...
In the process. I decided to weigh the hoods.
STOCK hood. (with everything on it, like it came from the factory such as windshield washer nozzles, insulation, stickers, vent, under vent, etc)
24.6 pounds
VIS Hood (with windshield washer nozzles, OEM vent, OEM under vent, stickers, and cool VIS serial number plate, and these ultra cool yet heavy hood latches from quick-latch)
24.4 pounds
NOW... The argument could be made, that if I took the insulation off of the OEM hood, and placed it on the OEM hood, that they would come in equal, but the insulation weighs almost nothing (.1-.2lbs)... I could counter... if I didn't put those ever so heavy hood pins on the car (they are milled steel and aluminum) I could argue that the VIS would be at least 1 lb lighter. so it's negligible.
The definative answer is.
They weigh almost identically the same!
Last edited by hatesposers; Jul 13, 2013 at 12:16 PM.
Jul 13, 2013, 11:40 AM
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There is something your missing. The reason why some people say its lighter and some say its heavier is because of variances in weight of CF hoods. The ones made on a different design, by different companys will vary. some may be light, some may be heavier, makes sense right, but you wouldn't expect much weight variance maybe.
Well here is the problem. Carbon fiber varies. A lot. It varies in weave, twill. A higher twill will be substantially heaver than a lighter twill. A cheap CF is going to use the cheapest weave right? Some may use cross weave, 2 ply, some may use 1 ply. If using 1ply vs 2 thats DOUBLE the CF. Another factor that is HUGE is amount of resin used. Some company may use double the resin as others. There is no play in stock aluminum hoods because they are all the same made my Mitsubishi. The weight of the same aluminum alloy in same thickness never varies....
Well here is the problem. Carbon fiber varies. A lot. It varies in weave, twill. A higher twill will be substantially heaver than a lighter twill. A cheap CF is going to use the cheapest weave right? Some may use cross weave, 2 ply, some may use 1 ply. If using 1ply vs 2 thats DOUBLE the CF. Another factor that is HUGE is amount of resin used. Some company may use double the resin as others. There is no play in stock aluminum hoods because they are all the same made my Mitsubishi. The weight of the same aluminum alloy in same thickness never varies....
Jul 13, 2013, 12:04 PM
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There is something your missing. The reason why some people say its lighter and some say its heavier is because of variances in weight of CF hoods. The ones made on a different design, by different companys will vary. some may be light, some may be heavier, makes sense right, but you wouldn't expect much weight variance maybe.
Well here is the problem. Carbon fiber varies. A lot. It varies in weave, twill. A higher twill will be substantially heaver than a lighter twill. A cheap CF is going to use the cheapest weave right? Some may use cross weave, 2 ply, some may use 1 ply. If using 1ply vs 2 thats DOUBLE the CF. Another factor that is HUGE is amount of resin used. Some company may use double the resin as others. There is no play in stock aluminum hoods because they are all the same made my Mitsubishi. The weight of the same aluminum alloy in same thickness never varies....
Well here is the problem. Carbon fiber varies. A lot. It varies in weave, twill. A higher twill will be substantially heaver than a lighter twill. A cheap CF is going to use the cheapest weave right? Some may use cross weave, 2 ply, some may use 1 ply. If using 1ply vs 2 thats DOUBLE the CF. Another factor that is HUGE is amount of resin used. Some company may use double the resin as others. There is no play in stock aluminum hoods because they are all the same made my Mitsubishi. The weight of the same aluminum alloy in same thickness never varies....
The carbon fiber cloth accounts for less than 1/2 of the weight of the resin/cloth ratio. In fact, I would say in the typical "carbon fiber" hood, including VIS the actual carbon fiber is less than 1/10 the total weight. The rest being resin, fiberglass (as nearly all carbon fiber hoods only have carbon fiber being the outer most layer), bonding agents, the fiberglass underskin, fasteners, inlayed nuts ant the like. As for "Cheap" let me tell you, I got the VIS hood SHIPPED to me for 1/3 the cost of an unfinished hood picked up at the cheapest online mitsubishi dealership.
However, here's my statement to you.
Prove your point. Show me a carbon fiber hood that weighs more. your theory CAN be sound. now back it up with facts.
I will revise my statement to be more accurate.
the VIS carbon fiber hood weight is nearly identical to stock, with the slight advantage going to VIS.
Show me the weights of other carbon fiber hoods that weigh more than stock to prove your point, and the same rhetoric that has been spred on this site since the begining of time.
Now, as for the statment of "going carbon fiber is to save weight" I call BS on that. less than 1/50th of the population buying carbon fiber is doing it for weight savings. They are doing it for looks.
Jul 13, 2013, 12:24 PM
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Oh, and they won't deliver an item this big, so you better go to washington to pick it up.
Or:
VIS hood at approximately 1/3 the cost shipped to my door.
$1000 price savings, and a really cool look. I don't see it as pointless.
Jul 13, 2013, 12:40 PM
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Well, True, and not true.
The carbon fiber cloth accounts for less than 1/2 of the weight of the resin/cloth ratio. In fact, I would say in the typical "carbon fiber" hood, including VIS the actual carbon fiber is less than 1/10 the total weight. The rest being resin, fiberglass (as nearly all carbon fiber hoods only have carbon fiber being the outer most layer), bonding agents, the fiberglass underskin, fasteners, inlayed nuts ant the like. As for "Cheap" let me tell you, I got the VIS hood SHIPPED to me for 1/3 the cost of an unfinished hood picked up at the cheapest online mitsubishi dealership.
However, here's my statement to you.
Prove your point. Show me a carbon fiber hood that weighs more. your theory CAN be sound. now back it up with facts.
I will revise my statement to be more accurate.
the VIS carbon fiber hood weight is nearly identical to stock, with the slight advantage going to VIS.
Show me the weights of other carbon fiber hoods that weigh more than stock to prove your point, and the same rhetoric that has been spred on this site since the begining of time.
Now, as for the statment of "going carbon fiber is to save weight" I call BS on that. less than 1/50th of the population buying carbon fiber is doing it for weight savings. They are doing it for looks.
The carbon fiber cloth accounts for less than 1/2 of the weight of the resin/cloth ratio. In fact, I would say in the typical "carbon fiber" hood, including VIS the actual carbon fiber is less than 1/10 the total weight. The rest being resin, fiberglass (as nearly all carbon fiber hoods only have carbon fiber being the outer most layer), bonding agents, the fiberglass underskin, fasteners, inlayed nuts ant the like. As for "Cheap" let me tell you, I got the VIS hood SHIPPED to me for 1/3 the cost of an unfinished hood picked up at the cheapest online mitsubishi dealership.
However, here's my statement to you.
Prove your point. Show me a carbon fiber hood that weighs more. your theory CAN be sound. now back it up with facts.
I will revise my statement to be more accurate.
the VIS carbon fiber hood weight is nearly identical to stock, with the slight advantage going to VIS.
Show me the weights of other carbon fiber hoods that weigh more than stock to prove your point, and the same rhetoric that has been spred on this site since the begining of time.
Now, as for the statment of "going carbon fiber is to save weight" I call BS on that. less than 1/50th of the population buying carbon fiber is doing it for weight savings. They are doing it for looks.
Don't take it the wrong way, I 100% agree that the CF hood is not going to save weight or weigh substantially more than the OEM aluminum, I only however provided a completely possible scenario on why there is so much debate on the weight of CF vs aluminum.
This topic will never be put to rest because of how hyped up CF is. People believe what they want, like CF is the best thing to bless earth and that you need medical grade steel for exhausts.
I would never recommend to get a CF hood to save weight, its plain stupid, the wights are too similar.
Jul 13, 2013, 12:52 PM
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Don't take it the wrong way, I 100% agree that the CF hood is not going to save weight or weigh substantially more than the OEM aluminum, I only however provided a completely possible scenario on why there is so much debate on the weight of CF vs aluminum.
This topic will never be put to rest because of how hyped up CF is. People believe what they want, like CF is the best thing to bless earth and that you need medical grade steel for exhausts.
I would never recommend to get a CF hood to save weight, its plain stupid, the wights are too similar.
This topic will never be put to rest because of how hyped up CF is. People believe what they want, like CF is the best thing to bless earth and that you need medical grade steel for exhausts.
I would never recommend to get a CF hood to save weight, its plain stupid, the wights are too similar.
On this we agree 100%. 15 years ago when I worked on a Rally team, we used carbon fiber components, but that was because we had HUGE sponsorship, access to miles of pre-preg, CNC machines for molds, large autoclaves, and materials engineers who made my simple discussions on modus of elasticity and plasticity sound like pre-school playground chatter. Those carbon fiber components were AMAZINGLY light, and structural and hugely out of price porportion. If rules allowed, we could have made a carbon fiber chassis, suspension, and had a rally car at 1/3 the weight of what was being run.
HOWEVER....
THIS TYPE OF CARBON FIBER IS NOT WHAT WE USE, OR WHAT 99.76637462423% OF THE CONSUMERS HAVE ON THEIR CAR.
What we have is a carbon fiber cloth that is for show only. It looks good, but has very little of the structural or weight savings properties that autoclaved pre-preg does. It is why we can get carbon fiber parts so cheap.
Carbon fiber on cars like the Evo are to look cool and try to get dates... Even though my wife looks at my car and says "It's too damn loud, and ugly"
The whole point of this thread, was to dispel a rumor that has been around for AT LEAST 6 years.
Are they worth it? If you need a replacement hood.... YES
If you are trying to save weight... No.
BUT THEY ARE NOT HEAVIER.
Last edited by hatesposers; Jul 13, 2013 at 12:54 PM.
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Jul 13, 2013, 01:07 PM
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I think most people (or maybe I'm a minority) end up with carbon fiber hoods of different design to aid in heat evacuation from the engine bad with addition of vents. Not for weight savings.
Jul 13, 2013, 03:37 PM
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I would venture to say that unless you are only drag racing or tracking your car for 80% a lot of what we do is for looks moreso then actual performance.
I've always like carbon fiber hoods but typically they have been light then the oem hoods I was replacing. I've always known they were close in weight and that's why I currently don't have one. Well that and I already have too many carbon fiber pieces on my car (not for performance gains either).
I've always like carbon fiber hoods but typically they have been light then the oem hoods I was replacing. I've always known they were close in weight and that's why I currently don't have one. Well that and I already have too many carbon fiber pieces on my car (not for performance gains either).
Jul 13, 2013, 04:14 PM
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Great find! It's excellent that you made the effort to get the exact truth. Admittedly I believed that the CF was heavier, just from the hearsay that you speak of.
What crosses my mind after reading this though, great info for our cars but what about other makes & models that use different materials for OEM?
And how much of the CT9 platform is made of aluminium? ie do other panels stand to have more benefit from being replaced with CF?
What crosses my mind after reading this though, great info for our cars but what about other makes & models that use different materials for OEM?
And how much of the CT9 platform is made of aluminium? ie do other panels stand to have more benefit from being replaced with CF?
Jul 13, 2013, 05:15 PM
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Most other cars have steel hoods.
With the plain Evo, the hood and the fenders are aluminum
On the RS and MR, the hood, the fenders and the roof are aluminum
you can tell the aluminum hood from the steel as the aluminum hoods have ridges down the sides.
With the plain Evo, the hood and the fenders are aluminum
On the RS and MR, the hood, the fenders and the roof are aluminum
you can tell the aluminum hood from the steel as the aluminum hoods have ridges down the sides.
Jul 13, 2013, 05:41 PM
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So I'd imagine CF would serve a reasonable purpose on other vehicles. And the only part that would likely serve a gain is the boot (trunk) from a CF switch (speaking of the most popular parts that are available).