no AYC, ACD?
Aug 20, 2002, 01:28 AM
#31
Originally posted by KK
Erik, What is the cost for the K1 ECU?
Erik, What is the cost for the K1 ECU?
Erik
Last edited by erikgj; Aug 20, 2002 at 01:31 AM.
Aug 20, 2002, 04:17 AM
#34
Evolving Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA.
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh and I will be getting the K2 ACD ECU for my Evo 
The K2 is basically even more hard core than the K1, works even faster, that's the one very close to WRC league.
I will most likely do a swap between standard ACD ECU for street and K2 ACD ECU for my AutoXes competition and track events. I heard it's a simple swap process, doesn't take too long. I'll see when I get the car
The K2 is basically even more hard core than the K1, works even faster, that's the one very close to WRC league.
I will most likely do a swap between standard ACD ECU for street and K2 ACD ECU for my AutoXes competition and track events. I heard it's a simple swap process, doesn't take too long. I'll see when I get the car
Aug 20, 2002, 07:57 AM
#35
Evolving Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by KK
Here's a thought about ACD.... why not develop an ECU that allows you to control the FR power distribution. I'm sure there is a max range mechanically, like say 90% max to either side, but imagine an ECU that would allow you to control that setting.
With something like that you could have a 10/90 FR distribution for drag racing or just to have a semi RWD experience for a few hours
Mark
Here's a thought about ACD.... why not develop an ECU that allows you to control the FR power distribution. I'm sure there is a max range mechanically, like say 90% max to either side, but imagine an ECU that would allow you to control that setting.
With something like that you could have a 10/90 FR distribution for drag racing or just to have a semi RWD experience for a few hours
Mark
It's available as an option for the 'race' models, Type RA (of the past), Spec C, S202.
See THAT I think is useful, whereas the 3-switch ACD is more of a gimmick <-- IMHO.
Aug 20, 2002, 08:59 AM
#36
WRC4ever-
The K2 is called Japan Rally Spec and it raises the clamp pressure even higher than the K1. The K2 puts more stress on the entire system and is meant for rally cars that receive regular AYC system rebuilds. At least that is what I have been able to dig up. If you have heard different please let me know.
Erik
The K2 is called Japan Rally Spec and it raises the clamp pressure even higher than the K1. The K2 puts more stress on the entire system and is meant for rally cars that receive regular AYC system rebuilds. At least that is what I have been able to dig up. If you have heard different please let me know.
Erik
Aug 20, 2002, 10:11 AM
#37
Originally posted by GDB
Subaru already has that
It's available as an option for the 'race' models, Type RA (of the past), Spec C, S202.
See THAT I think is useful, whereas the 3-switch ACD is more of a gimmick <-- IMHO.
Subaru already has that
It's available as an option for the 'race' models, Type RA (of the past), Spec C, S202.
See THAT I think is useful, whereas the 3-switch ACD is more of a gimmick <-- IMHO.
GDB-
It is not the same thing as the Subaru adjustable center diff. Their center diff control is a simple bias adjustment from essentially free to locked.
The ACD settings have a bias element but it also changes response profiles and locking programs. The inputs are:
4 wheel speeds
G force longitudinal and lateral
Steering angle
Brakes state (on or off)
The diff opens when the hand brake is pulled to allow autocross style handbrake turns.
Mitsubishi’s ACD on the Evo is not a gimmick. Active diffs are on all the leading WRC cars and will continue to advance as long as the rules permit their use.
Erik
Aug 20, 2002, 08:51 PM
#39
Evolving Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Monaco
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It should not be adjustable, it's like the standard one but 35 65.
For an evo vii the best option would be to have the acd with the rs rear lsd, but the ayc k2 ecu shoul not be too bad!
For an evo vii the best option would be to have the acd with the rs rear lsd, but the ayc k2 ecu shoul not be too bad!
Aug 20, 2002, 09:08 PM
#40
Evolved Member
...autocross style turning??
erikgj wrote:
The diff opens when the hand brake is pulled to allow autocross style handbrake turns
The diff opens when the hand brake is pulled to allow autocross style handbrake turns
Mr AWD
Aug 20, 2002, 10:21 PM
#41
Evolving Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What I meant as a gimmick is that it's useless in real world usage.
None of my buddies who drive Evo VII ever switch out of Tarmac setting. A few of them tried the other settings, only to find themselves understeering in the corners.
I mean, sure it may be useful if you plan to take the Evo in the snow or mud, but how many of you plan to do that?
Besides, if THAT is the plan of action, Mitsu should've anticipated that these people are hardcore. But hardcore people can choose the RS instead. And guess what: the 3-setting switch on the RS is an option. Which leads me to believe, even in competition trim, it's not necessary. Hence a gimmick
Again, all IMHO.
Oh people might point out that since AYC isn't available in RS, that it's a gimmick too if following my logic.
No, AYC DOES work. It works wonderfully I must say.
ACD switch does work as well. But it works to promote more understeer. So MAYBE it's good for the newbies pushing this car for the first time around the track. Other than that... well like I said, maybe it works under snow and gravel conditions but I don't know anyone who has tried it.
By the way erikgj, the ACD details you provide, that sounds like AYC. You sure that's what ACD does, in STANDARD form?
Oh wait put it this way: ACD by itself, that is the center differential, DOES work I have no doubt about it. But the 3 switches are options which I think hardly anyone will EVER use for real.
So an Evo with ACD and AYC 100% in Tarmac mode is good enough for me.
None of my buddies who drive Evo VII ever switch out of Tarmac setting. A few of them tried the other settings, only to find themselves understeering in the corners.
I mean, sure it may be useful if you plan to take the Evo in the snow or mud, but how many of you plan to do that?
Besides, if THAT is the plan of action, Mitsu should've anticipated that these people are hardcore. But hardcore people can choose the RS instead. And guess what: the 3-setting switch on the RS is an option. Which leads me to believe, even in competition trim, it's not necessary. Hence a gimmick
Again, all IMHO.
Oh people might point out that since AYC isn't available in RS, that it's a gimmick too if following my logic.
No, AYC DOES work. It works wonderfully I must say.
ACD switch does work as well. But it works to promote more understeer. So MAYBE it's good for the newbies pushing this car for the first time around the track. Other than that... well like I said, maybe it works under snow and gravel conditions but I don't know anyone who has tried it.
By the way erikgj, the ACD details you provide, that sounds like AYC. You sure that's what ACD does, in STANDARD form?
Oh wait put it this way: ACD by itself, that is the center differential, DOES work I have no doubt about it. But the 3 switches are options which I think hardly anyone will EVER use for real.
So an Evo with ACD and AYC 100% in Tarmac mode is good enough for me.
Aug 20, 2002, 11:12 PM
#42
Re: ...autocross style turning??
Originally posted by MrAWD
Since when this is an autocross style turning??
Mr AWD
Since when this is an autocross style turning??
Mr AWD
I am not saying that you should do this or that you would want to do this at all. But the Evo does open the center diff when the handbrake is pulled.
Erk
Aug 20, 2002, 11:27 PM
#43
Originally posted by GDB
What I meant as a gimmick is that it's useless in real world usage.
None of my buddies who drive Evo VII ever switch out of Tarmac setting. A few of them tried the other settings, only to find themselves understeering in the corners.
I mean, sure it may be useful if you plan to take the Evo in the snow or mud, but how many of you plan to do that?
Besides, if THAT is the plan of action, Mitsu should've anticipated that these people are hardcore. But hardcore people can choose the RS instead. And guess what: the 3-setting switch on the RS is an option. Which leads me to believe, even in competition trim, it's not necessary. Hence a gimmick
Again, all IMHO.
Oh people might point out that since AYC isn't available in RS, that it's a gimmick too if following my logic.
No, AYC DOES work. It works wonderfully I must say.
ACD switch does work as well. But it works to promote more understeer. So MAYBE it's good for the newbies pushing this car for the first time around the track. Other than that... well like I said, maybe it works under snow and gravel conditions but I don't know anyone who has tried it.
By the way erikgj, the ACD details you provide, that sounds like AYC. You sure that's what ACD does, in STANDARD form?
Oh wait put it this way: ACD by itself, that is the center differential, DOES work I have no doubt about it. But the 3 switches are options which I think hardly anyone will EVER use for real.
So an Evo with ACD and AYC 100% in Tarmac mode is good enough for me.
What I meant as a gimmick is that it's useless in real world usage.
None of my buddies who drive Evo VII ever switch out of Tarmac setting. A few of them tried the other settings, only to find themselves understeering in the corners.
I mean, sure it may be useful if you plan to take the Evo in the snow or mud, but how many of you plan to do that?
Besides, if THAT is the plan of action, Mitsu should've anticipated that these people are hardcore. But hardcore people can choose the RS instead. And guess what: the 3-setting switch on the RS is an option. Which leads me to believe, even in competition trim, it's not necessary. Hence a gimmick
Again, all IMHO.
Oh people might point out that since AYC isn't available in RS, that it's a gimmick too if following my logic.
No, AYC DOES work. It works wonderfully I must say.
ACD switch does work as well. But it works to promote more understeer. So MAYBE it's good for the newbies pushing this car for the first time around the track. Other than that... well like I said, maybe it works under snow and gravel conditions but I don't know anyone who has tried it.
By the way erikgj, the ACD details you provide, that sounds like AYC. You sure that's what ACD does, in STANDARD form?
Oh wait put it this way: ACD by itself, that is the center differential, DOES work I have no doubt about it. But the 3 switches are options which I think hardly anyone will EVER use for real.
So an Evo with ACD and AYC 100% in Tarmac mode is good enough for me.
My main points are:
- That ACD is not a simple bias setting
- The programming is complex.
- The programming is upgradable through several aftermarket ACD ECUs
I believe that the gravel setting works well in the wet. It seems to udersteer a little bit more and for some drivers with FWD experience that may be reassuring.
The only somewhat independent mention of the modes is in the first UK Car comparison test of the JDM Evo and the JDM Sti. The STi could beat the Evo around a wet test track with the Evo in Tarmac mode. Switched to gravel the Evo felt more like the STi and could beat the Sti's best time.
I think their is a time and place for ACD. Not all drivers will want it. But that is what the RS is for. As far as Mitsubishi is concerned the RS is a basis for rallying and expect the diffs will be replaced for rally work.
Erik
Aug 21, 2002, 12:15 AM
#44
Evolved Member
AutoX and handbrakes with ACD
erikgj wrote:
Since Mitsubishi refer to as such in their literature. They us the term gymkhana in Japan. I translated that to autocross for the US readers. Since the name gymkhana is not that common in the US anymore. In Japan most courses require a car to spin around a cone at some point.
Since Mitsubishi refer to as such in their literature. They us the term gymkhana in Japan. I translated that to autocross for the US readers. Since the name gymkhana is not that common in the US anymore. In Japan most courses require a car to spin around a cone at some point.
erikgj also wrote:
I am not saying that you should do this or that you would want to do this at all. But the EVO does open the center diff when the handbrake is pulled.
I am not saying that you should do this or that you would want to do this at all. But the EVO does open the center diff when the handbrake is pulled.
The center diff is open with the handbrake up, the same when you have a full steering lock and hit the gas!
Later
Mr. AWD
Aug 21, 2002, 01:14 AM
#45
Re: AutoX and handbrakes with ACD
Originally posted by MrAWD
When I started with autoX a while back, I did this hand brake turn a few times, which later showed up to be a big waste of time. Here in US, we rarely have a course (at least not Nationally) that has such a tight turns. For only one that I have seen so far, downshifting to first is much better way of doing it. When the style is what people are after, than other techniques are rather useful, tough. But, you where right about the "gymkhana" word - never heard of it!
And, I didn't say you did!
The center diff is open with the handbrake up, the same when you have a full steering lock and hit the gas!
Later
Mr. AWD
When I started with autoX a while back, I did this hand brake turn a few times, which later showed up to be a big waste of time. Here in US, we rarely have a course (at least not Nationally) that has such a tight turns. For only one that I have seen so far, downshifting to first is much better way of doing it. When the style is what people are after, than other techniques are rather useful, tough. But, you where right about the "gymkhana" word - never heard of it!
And, I didn't say you did!
The center diff is open with the handbrake up, the same when you have a full steering lock and hit the gas!
Later
Mr. AWD
The whole hand brake turn thing is funny. I used to see the videos of lancers and galants (just the old turbos and VR4, pre-evo days) just doing donuts and burning down tires like crazy. I used to think that this was just a wild car demonstartion. After going to an gymkhana event in Japan in '94 I was shocked to find that these were required parts of the course. The courses a very tight as you could imagine.
Erik