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Off the shelf built head or assembling parts to build
Evo GeneralDiscuss any generalized technical Evo related topics that may not fit into the other forums.
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Off the shelf built head or assembling parts to build
Hello, I am about to source parts to built my 46G3. Currently stock evo 8 head with no work done to it besides routine maintenance. 122,000 miles currently. I have compiled a list on what is needed to build my head
Springs/Retainers Exhaust/Intake Valves Valve seals Camshaft Valve keepers ARP Headstuds New seals/gaskets on camshafts and head
Cams
Oil Pressure Regulator
Resurface and deck head
Now that does seem like a lot of parts and costly labor wise to a shop..
My question is, am I better to just buy an off the shelf built head that includes majority of the list I have? I believe I would need to get my own cams. I believe the options I have chose are what I need to fulfill the job. Please add on to anything that I may need to do this or advice on if my mind is set. Goal is to hit 500 hp without messing with the block, with a turbo that spools nice and quick. Not one that requires revving it out like a 6262. Thank you
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a already built head if it's a good deal. I bought a Evo 9 head from a seller 3 hours away for $1800 that had GSC 5041s in it, GSC stock replacement valves, and GSC R2 cast cams. Sold the cams off for $350 and currently making 460whp on a Mustang Dyno with a built 2.0 on that head. My original head had a decent amount of detonation damage around the edges, was resurfaced at least once by then, and had scoring in the cam journals. It would've cost almost the same to rebuild + repair as just buying that head.
Just make sure to look it over, maybe pay a machine shop to pressure test and check the deck on it (which is what I did, local shop was impressed at the deck finish of the head) for $75. Only thing I didn't like with my head is that for whatever reason the builder went +1mm bigger on the exhaust side and used a different style of GSC stock replacement that looked a little older on 4 of the exhaust valves. Have a feeling he broke some valves on a different head and used what he had left over.
Don't use map. If you want a properly built head, send it to head games.
At 122k miles, you should do a compression test to make sure it is worth rebuilding the head.
I was looking towards Buschur's stage 2 head options, but heard Buschur is not the same as back in the day anymore..
Originally Posted by hutch959
why are you rebuilding it again?
on another note... what about a full gsc cnc head?
I decided to do a full refresh on the engine and when I bought the car, the seller gave me HKS 272 Cams uninstalled brand new. So I decided to start fresh and do a full fluid flush, new clutch cause it needs one, new gaskets all around (buying engine gasket kit from STM), and decided to install cams, but when ahead and saw that I might as well do a whole head job because I was going to change to ARP head studs, new springs/retainers for the HKS cams.
Originally Posted by mazdabish
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a already built head if it's a good deal. I bought a Evo 9 head from a seller 3 hours away for $1800 that had GSC 5041s in it, GSC stock replacement valves, and GSC R2 cast cams. Sold the cams off for $350 and currently making 460whp on a Mustang Dyno with a built 2.0 on that head. My original head had a decent amount of detonation damage around the edges, was resurfaced at least once by then, and had scoring in the cam journals. It would've cost almost the same to rebuild + repair as just buying that head.
Just make sure to look it over, maybe pay a machine shop to pressure test and check the deck on it (which is what I did, local shop was impressed at the deck finish of the head) for $75. Only thing I didn't like with my head is that for whatever reason the builder went +1mm bigger on the exhaust side and used a different style of GSC stock replacement that looked a little older on 4 of the exhaust valves. Have a feeling he broke some valves on a different head and used what he had left over.
I am going towards a brand new built head from a reputable shop, doesn't matter where I get it from, I was either going to choose from Buschur or MAP
I decided to do a full refresh on the engine and when I bought the car, the seller gave me HKS 272 Cams uninstalled brand new. So I decided to start fresh and do a full fluid flush, new clutch cause it needs one, new gaskets all around (buying engine gasket kit from STM), and decided to install cams, but when ahead and saw that I might as well do a whole head job because I was going to change to ARP head studs, new springs/retainers for the HKS cams.
Yes haha, I am between companies like Headworks Automotive, Buschur, and Boostin Performance now.. such hard decisions. I think the only difference is how they're actually being built and machined.. they all use same spring/retainers, guides, mill, etc..
Stick to Head Games between your 3 choices. But if you want a mild refresh and springs/retainers/seals, really that's something most machine shops can handle for way way less money. Just ask around your area for machine shop suggestions, doesn't have to be Evo specific but someone who does modern import heads (think Subaru, Hondas, VW, BMWs, etc) could handle a Evo head. Valves you don't have to replace if they're within spec/good shape and oil pressure regulator is 3 bolts. Cams, studs, and all seals except valve seals can be done within the car.
I would do Head Games since they're local to me in NJ, but if you're down south a shop like JBR Engines (Tampa Florida) or Victory Precision Machine (Virginia) can handle it.
Last edited by mazdabish; Jul 5, 2020 at 10:24 PM.
Is head games still porting by hand, or did they finally step up to cnc? 4 piston racing does some really great work and their porting service is cnc. When you're looking to properly match flow volume and characteristics the precision of cnc is what you'll want. Hand porting is just too imprecise.
Is head games still porting by hand, or did they finally step up to cnc? 4 piston racing does some really great work and their porting service is cnc. When you're looking to properly match flow volume and characteristics the precision of cnc is what you'll want. Hand porting is just too imprecise.
-Hand porting can be very precise, if the guy doing it knows what and how to do it. Cm3 area can be accurately measured.
-An advantage of hand porting, is that one is able to reshape everything, in any desirable way/pattern/shape with combined dimensions of cm3 area, in order to optimize/enhance COD. Cnc is restricted by tooling and way of porting on this.
Marios
Marios
Last edited by Evo8cy; Jul 14, 2020 at 12:16 AM.
Reason: typo
Is head games still porting by hand, or did they finally step up to cnc? 4 piston racing does some really great work and their porting service is cnc. When you're looking to properly match flow volume and characteristics the precision of cnc is what you'll want. Hand porting is just too imprecise.
Hand porting is just as good as CNC because core shift can be accounted for. I have their hand ported race head, no issues with uneven cylinders.
Their race port is is now CNC though. The pocket port is still done by hand. CNC really just increases shop through out because it's faster, not necessarily better.
Jul 3, 2020, 10:06 PM
