kurichan

I agree. I think I'm going for refinement this time around. My WRX was a kick, but I sort of need to "grow up."

Funny - drove a BMW 5 Series before the WRX. I guess they get under your skin. Plus, this could be my last opportunity to drive a "real" BMW, the way Chris Bangle has mangled the design...

Mister2zx3

Come on Spy Monkey.. They both have 4 doors, a steering wheel and radio.. How different can they be.. hehehe.

If your not sure you want an Evo, you probably don't.. It doesn't cost enough to be a status symbol, it's more of an indicator to those in the know that you are a driver, not just someone stuck in a tin can in traffic.

kurichan

I just don't see it that way. A car is not an "indicator." I don't buy cars to make a statement.

I buy it for MYSELF! I could care less what others think.

People choose cars for many different reasons. I guess some want to show off or try to define their personality with a car (I find it a little pathetic, but to each his own).

I want a quick car that I can enjoy when driving alone, but safe for when I have my children in the back seat.

I also don't want to deal with maintenance issues.

If the BMW is less than the Evo on lease, and comes with free bumper to bumper maintenance for the life of the lease, it makes awfully good sense to me.

More a financial "indicator" than anything I guess.

OnlineAlias

I agree, the Evo depreciates like a pig and the price of admission is quite steep for what it is once everything is factored in. I think someone would be a fool not to cross shop it with the BMW. I also wouldn't blame someone for buying the BMW..buying an Evo is jumping off a cliff transportation-wise and you better be ready to live with it....

Mister2zx3

Everyone sees things differently. I see folks in low fuel economy vehicles as indicating they like to waste a lot of money on a depreciating tool. Financial indicators show whether some entities practices are improving or reducing their financial state. All cars depreciate. The more you spend, the more you lose.

Using a sports car as a part of a hobby is an understandable loss, as a hobby is by definition an activity of leisure, and as wonderful as a profitable hobby is, they are generally an expense.

As for getting maintenance and good quality, that is a financial plus, but there are others out there that are offered at a better price. If this is a transportation tool, why buy a more expensive hammer, when a better priced one suffices? That's when you have to inquire what other motive is involved? Attempts to impress others? oneself?

Again everyone has their own views, but many folks see the money wasted on a transportation tool as a status symbol, when really it's an indicator of poor financial decisions.

Sam Walton's usage of an old beat up rusty pickup for decades come to mind of someone who understood good financial decisions. He had his hobbies too, which were well beyond my budget, but how to grow finances.

nubby

iTrader: (6)

From automobilemag.com:

BMW Individual—the division of BMW GmbH that puts those tasty floormats and wood inlays in high-spec 7-series—created the Performance package, and it's a good thing they got the job, for the massaged 330i doesn't forsake comfort for speed. Yes, the car has more oomph: New camshafts and altered engine-management programming coax ten more horsepower (235) from the Double VANOS-timed inline 6. That and a shorter final drive ratio pull the 330i's 0-to-60 time down to an even six seconds, half a second quicker than the stock 330's sprint.

Wow. Only BMW could get $4K for 10 horsepower.

en1gma19

iTrader: (23)

someone told me a few days ago that BMW was the most problematic car this past year. Haven't researched to see if it's true, but definately something to look into......

Stockfornow...

iTrader: (2)

I strongly agree with some of these posts and just as strongly disagree with some others.

And I can speak with alot of autority on this subject, unlike some the posts best left to the tech-gods that I am thankful exist on this forum.

For reference I own a 2002 BMW 330ci, 5 speed, with the sport (pre-more power) package, and I own a 2003 EVO. My previous "fun" car was a 2000 S2000. No, I am not loaded either, my wife and I do OK, but we both just like cars.

It's true these two cars are both squarely in the fun catagory, but in EVERY way the EVO will flat out dust our BMW performance wise. And the EVO stays right with or exceeds the S2000 in most ways.

BUT, the BMW FAR exceeds the EVO in long haul driving (duh), quality of build goes big time in the BMW column, and with only a couple glitches at one of our local dealers we get treated like royalty at the BMW dealerships and we only bought a 3 series. The 3 series repair record was slipping (Consumer Reports) but is now again OK, not great but OK.

All of these bits of info relate to your original question in that the resale/residual calculations are somewhat affected by the desirability of the car too. I hate to say it, but used EVO's are likely to be cheap. Most people have had no troubles with their EVO's but I think alot more than would be normal have had trouble and it will take it's toll at resale time. And anyone who is into cars knows Mitsu is in trouble, that will not help things either. The limited build number of EVO's will help increase their values, but I have no idea how much.

I think it's just a matter of priority, in my opinion, performance and a bigger overall finacial hit would go to the EVO and lower performance and a lesser financial hit would go to the BMW.

Good luck whatever you decide.

kurichan

Aha! But that's why this discussion is so interesting...

In this case, the more I spend, the less I lose...

Case in point...

$38K BMW for slightly less per month on a lease than a $28K Evo...

The more you spend, the less you lose!

I LOVE IT!!!

kurichan

Good point, but I suspect those are the 7's and 5's with all their bells and whistles causing problems.

This really might be the last chance to get a decent BMW without funky styling and weird electronics.

solitaire

I really dislike the apples to oranges argument that I often see on here when people are cross shopping the evo and a bunch of lesser performing cars. I feel like it someone wants to look at the 330 and the evo at the same time, it's really up to them to decide whether they think they'd be happy with both of those cars.

I'm interested in both the S2000 and the evo... both are fairly different, but appeal to similar people (just take a look at how many people on this board used to own s2ks). Sometimes you can be torn betwen two very different priorites (luxury vs. performance, for instance).

I don't mean this as a flame, I just think you should let kurichan and others decide for themselves whether they could or could not handle the downsides to having such a raw performance car. I mean, I think it's great to warn/inform people that they may be getting into something they didin't anticpate when they looked at the spec sheet, but there's no sense in arguing with an informed buyer telling them they won't be happy with one or the other.

edit: typo

kurichan

Thanks for the opinion solitare -- it won't surprise you that I totally agree.

The fact of the matter is, I am interested in both cars. And that's all that matters. I might not fit into someone else's view of how the world works, but I am what I am.

Anyhow, I've started negotiating w/3 different BMW dealers on price. I might go drive an Evo tonight.

I'll let you all know how it goes.

(another good thing about the BMW is that I can pick it up in Europe!!)

Mister2zx3

That really not evena comparison. thats two totally different things.. You buy what appreciates, and lease what depreciates, so leasing is definately the smart route becuase you only pay for what you use. so the MSRP really is not a factor at all. IT is just part of the variables prior to the number that matters.. In this case. MSRP - Residual = Lease Amount. And the only thing that matters is the lease amount. So the cost is not the MSRP..

So if your shopping leases, I hear BMW has some very good deals to keep that falling rock of a tool from being a big financial burden. If you dont' go to the road circuit frequently, you can use the BMW to the same level as an Evo on public roads. Which is a safe and controlled one..

Karash

iTrader: (6)

Hey...I would trade in my Evo for an M5 any day

pjork-master

Don't confuse materials with quality of build... this year is the first time the 3 series made it to the recommended list in Consumers Report. The WRX has been there for sometime.

And even though from a purist standpoint you can't compare an Evo to anything else but an STi or performance auto with AWD... e.g. R32, S4, 911 Carrera 4/Turbo...

Opinion and tastes go a long way ...

So yeah, cross-shopping will happen between two very different cars with different reasons de'existence.

When someone is car enthusiast at the end of the day they want a car that is enjoyable, but there are other factors independent of performance. Like,

Desirability for resale, compromises to ownership, how it looks, smile factor, and the like.

I had an Integra for a while and before I modded it to the point where it would embarrass many substantially more expensive performance autos in a straight line and on the track... I really enjoyed driving it.

And it was an underpowered car with an O.K. suspension and the wrong wheels propelling it... the front ones if I lost you.

So, apples, oranges... they're all fruit and that's how car mags can make COTY comparisons. Because it's about numbers and smiles.

I was looking at the 330i with the Performance package as well... Nice car. And I would be in the market for the Z350 and the Elise if I didn't need a practical car... i.e. backseat.

So, as long as people are buying the car for the right reasons... the joy of driving, it's all good. But if it's for status and lack of endowment... don't embarrass the brand.

And remember, don't be upset when you can't keep up with me and my soon to be MR in the twisties... let alone in a straight line. And you better prey for no snow or rain... because you'll wind your pretty little car in a ditch. .

g