View Poll Results: Next Car to Challenge EVO (future models)
A Revamped STi
269
42.83%
New Toyota Supra
127
20.22%
New RX-7
51
8.12%
New Audi S4
26
4.14%
US Lotus Elise
120
19.11%
Other (plz list)
35
5.57%
Voters: 628. You may not vote on this poll
Next car to challenge Evo
Apr 26, 2004, 03:22 PM
#17
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Especially given their history, regardless of whatever else comes out the Evo and the STi will always be head to head competitors. Price, amenities and speed factored in, nothing else is quite the same, whether cheaper/slower or costlier/faster.
Apr 26, 2004, 03:44 PM
#18
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The Elise sure looks to be a strong performer.
With that low of a curb weight, isn't it going to be extremely vulnerable in a collision/impact though?
The old L98 Corvette weighed quite a bit more than that and it had a high fatality rate for medium/severe impacts.
With that low of a curb weight, isn't it going to be extremely vulnerable in a collision/impact though?
The old L98 Corvette weighed quite a bit more than that and it had a high fatality rate for medium/severe impacts.
Apr 26, 2004, 04:05 PM
#20
Any time you're 2 feet lower and 2000 lbs lighter, you're going to be in trouble. The Elise does have some advantages in maneuverability and crash avoidance, of course.
I can't see the Elise in anything less than A. Seems like they'd still need to penalize it somehow to give other cars a shot.
I can't see the Elise in anything less than A. Seems like they'd still need to penalize it somehow to give other cars a shot.
Apr 26, 2004, 04:13 PM
#21
Originally posted by JNasty4G63
I remember reading somewhere, if Toyota and Mazda bring the Supra and RX7 back, they were going to be cheaper than the outgoing models we had a few years back. Much the same way the Z came back as a low $30k car with almost 300hp to play with. The Supra could have a tuned version of the V6 they use now much like the Z did with the VQ V6. The RX7 could use either a more tuned out normally aspirated version of the Renesis, or a turbo version. With it being side port, that would make lots of power with a turbo.
I remember reading somewhere, if Toyota and Mazda bring the Supra and RX7 back, they were going to be cheaper than the outgoing models we had a few years back. Much the same way the Z came back as a low $30k car with almost 300hp to play with. The Supra could have a tuned version of the V6 they use now much like the Z did with the VQ V6. The RX7 could use either a more tuned out normally aspirated version of the Renesis, or a turbo version. With it being side port, that would make lots of power with a turbo.
The Supra could come back anywhere from 350Z territory up to Viper territory, price/performance wise. Toyota's performance lineup is thin (at best), so any return would be beneficial to their image. Toyota doesn't have an engine like the VQ; I think they'd develop something special for it regardless of the price. Even a vastly reworked version of the 3.0 I6 in the IS300 would be a good start - assuming the numbers were on par with Nissan.
The RX7 is a different story. If you go back a few years and look at Mazda's model lineup, the RX8 was marked as a replacement for the RX7. It's similar in appearnace, size, and concept, albeit without a turbo and with 2 extra half-doors. There was an asterik next to it, and that was an RX8-based RX7, complete with a turbo rotary (as I mentioned above). There is no way Mazda will keep this car in the same realm as the Mazdaspeed Miata and the current normally aspirated RX8. It'll have to carry a hefty premium to prevent it from scavenging Miata/RX8 sales. $40,000 seems to be distant enough, without being over the top.
Apr 26, 2004, 04:16 PM
#22
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Originally posted by WestSideBilly
The STi is already a legitimate challenger. Expect Subaru and Mitsu to continue upping the ante as they have for the last 5-10 years.
If/when a Supra shows up, it'll be a corvette challenger - $50-75,000; a V8 pushing 400+ HP. Not the same league. Same goes for the RX7; turbocharging the Renesis rotary will yield 350+ hp; although the cost may stay low enough for some people to cross shop. Likewise for the forthcoming R35 GTR - big power, big money.
The S4 has gone towards being more of a luxury GT (competing with MB) and less of an M3 fighter, and conversely aimed at a different market, at least in my view.
The Elise is just an all around different type of vehicle. I don't forsee anyone cross-shopping these two cars; just magazine/car forum racing.
The STi is already a legitimate challenger. Expect Subaru and Mitsu to continue upping the ante as they have for the last 5-10 years.
If/when a Supra shows up, it'll be a corvette challenger - $50-75,000; a V8 pushing 400+ HP. Not the same league. Same goes for the RX7; turbocharging the Renesis rotary will yield 350+ hp; although the cost may stay low enough for some people to cross shop. Likewise for the forthcoming R35 GTR - big power, big money.
The S4 has gone towards being more of a luxury GT (competing with MB) and less of an M3 fighter, and conversely aimed at a different market, at least in my view.
The Elise is just an all around different type of vehicle. I don't forsee anyone cross-shopping these two cars; just magazine/car forum racing.
Apr 26, 2004, 05:03 PM
#23
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Originally posted by WestSideBilly
The Supra could come back anywhere from 350Z territory up to Viper territory, price/performance wise. Toyota's performance lineup is thin (at best), so any return would be beneficial to their image. Toyota doesn't have an engine like the VQ; I think they'd develop something special for it regardless of the price. Even a vastly reworked version of the 3.0 I6 in the IS300 would be a good start - assuming the numbers were on par with Nissan.
The RX7 is a different story. If you go back a few years and look at Mazda's model lineup, the RX8 was marked as a replacement for the RX7. It's similar in appearnace, size, and concept, albeit without a turbo and with 2 extra half-doors. There was an asterik next to it, and that was an RX8-based RX7, complete with a turbo rotary (as I mentioned above). There is no way Mazda will keep this car in the same realm as the Mazdaspeed Miata and the current normally aspirated RX8. It'll have to carry a hefty premium to prevent it from scavenging Miata/RX8 sales. $40,000 seems to be distant enough, without being over the top.
The Supra could come back anywhere from 350Z territory up to Viper territory, price/performance wise. Toyota's performance lineup is thin (at best), so any return would be beneficial to their image. Toyota doesn't have an engine like the VQ; I think they'd develop something special for it regardless of the price. Even a vastly reworked version of the 3.0 I6 in the IS300 would be a good start - assuming the numbers were on par with Nissan.
The RX7 is a different story. If you go back a few years and look at Mazda's model lineup, the RX8 was marked as a replacement for the RX7. It's similar in appearnace, size, and concept, albeit without a turbo and with 2 extra half-doors. There was an asterik next to it, and that was an RX8-based RX7, complete with a turbo rotary (as I mentioned above). There is no way Mazda will keep this car in the same realm as the Mazdaspeed Miata and the current normally aspirated RX8. It'll have to carry a hefty premium to prevent it from scavenging Miata/RX8 sales. $40,000 seems to be distant enough, without being over the top.
Next, we move to the RX8 and RX7. The RX8 was not marketed as a replacement to the RX7. The RX7 has always been a 2 seat, small, high performing sports car. The RX8 was designed as an evolution of that theory, just expanding the room and utility of the vehicle while keeping the rotary engine. That was why it was called the RX8 and not the new RX7. They just don't relate to one another. Sure, they both have Rotary engines, but that is where I see the similarities ending. I really do think we will see a new RX7. Might not make it here to the States, but I bet it will happen. Same thing like I was saying with the 2JZ, the old rotary in the RX7's were great, back then. But, the new Renesis is a whole new animal. I read somewhere that they can get upwards of 275-290hp from it without turbos. Even that ammount of power would be great in a nice light car like an RX7. But, if they turbo it as well, it would be even better. And, the fact that the engine is side port now, just makes the whole thing add up even better.
Again, thats just my take. Don't want to seem like I'm ripping on you. I understand your take on these topics, I just happen to disagree. Good thoughts though.
Hilg
Apr 26, 2004, 06:55 PM
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If you consider something moderately priced (under 50K) that is fun to drive and fast on street and track then the competition is definitely the Elise.
I flip my daily drivers about once every 2 years and the Elise is probably next on my list. I am renting one for 3 days in the highlands of Scotland in mid May (awesome roads and light traffic). I will report back to you guys when I return. I should have some good video too as we are also renting a Caterham and have upgraded my video system with one of these.
Chase Cam
I also think it would be fun to own 2 British cars!
I flip my daily drivers about once every 2 years and the Elise is probably next on my list. I am renting one for 3 days in the highlands of Scotland in mid May (awesome roads and light traffic). I will report back to you guys when I return. I should have some good video too as we are also renting a Caterham and have upgraded my video system with one of these.
Chase Cam
I also think it would be fun to own 2 British cars!
Apr 26, 2004, 06:59 PM
#26
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Anything Cosworth is on my list guys. The Escort Cosworth is what got me into this whole sport compact fantasy, so I will definitely be drooling over that thing. Now will they bring it to the states, probably not. May have to look for international employment opportunities! 
Apr 26, 2004, 07:52 PM
#28
Originally posted by JNasty4G63
Next, we move to the RX8 and RX7. The RX8 was not marketed as a replacement to the RX7. The RX7 has always been a 2 seat, small, high performing sports car. The RX8 was designed as an evolution of that theory, just expanding the room and utility of the vehicle while keeping the rotary engine. That was why it was called the RX8 and not the new RX7. They just don't relate to one another. Sure, they both have Rotary engines, but that is where I see the similarities ending. I really do think we will see a new RX7. Might not make it here to the States, but I bet it will happen. Same thing like I was saying with the 2JZ, the old rotary in the RX7's were great, back then. But, the new Renesis is a whole new animal. I read somewhere that they can get upwards of 275-290hp from it without turbos. Even that ammount of power would be great in a nice light car like an RX7. But, if they turbo it as well, it would be even better. And, the fact that the engine is side port now, just makes the whole thing add up even better.
Hilg
Next, we move to the RX8 and RX7. The RX8 was not marketed as a replacement to the RX7. The RX7 has always been a 2 seat, small, high performing sports car. The RX8 was designed as an evolution of that theory, just expanding the room and utility of the vehicle while keeping the rotary engine. That was why it was called the RX8 and not the new RX7. They just don't relate to one another. Sure, they both have Rotary engines, but that is where I see the similarities ending. I really do think we will see a new RX7. Might not make it here to the States, but I bet it will happen. Same thing like I was saying with the 2JZ, the old rotary in the RX7's were great, back then. But, the new Renesis is a whole new animal. I read somewhere that they can get upwards of 275-290hp from it without turbos. Even that ammount of power would be great in a nice light car like an RX7. But, if they turbo it as well, it would be even better. And, the fact that the engine is side port now, just makes the whole thing add up even better.
Hilg
They'll use the same chassy, strip out the back seat, save some weight, add some turbos...and done. However they had some bad press about overestimating the power output on the current RX-8, so that might play in.
Apr 26, 2004, 07:52 PM
#29
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I hate the new design for the skyline......the older model looked so much meaner and looked like nothing could touch it. It had a uniqe design to it. The new one looks like all of the other rounded out cars comming out. Same with the supra. Anyways...Do you think the VW R32 holds ground on you guys????