My Evo work-in-progress pics
Aug 30, 2005, 08:08 AM
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More stuff for my ride. This time: brake ducting! I wrote up a separate thread for the install.
Couple of pics:
l8r)
Couple of pics:
l8r)
Aug 30, 2005, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by kevin
you know you can take that sticker off the door...
I still have mines on and I bought my evo in 2003! lol Oh and I just recently took off my airbag sticker.
Last edited by Ev0 1; Aug 30, 2005 at 08:45 AM.
Sep 8, 2005, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard Sierra
Great write up. Please give us your HONEST opinion on the "streetability" of the 3071 versus the stock turbo especially in terms of spool up.
Sep 10, 2005, 09:17 AM
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Smoggy,
no, I'm very happy with the 3071 for the time being. The car is an absolute beast when driven hard right now, definitely giving me a challenge as far as remaining in control. As I've stated before, I've gotten rides in AMS gt35r powered cars, and until I learn better car control, that's just too much power to play with ... especially on a road course.
I'll post a write-up here shortly ...
l8r)
no, I'm very happy with the 3071 for the time being. The car is an absolute beast when driven hard right now, definitely giving me a challenge as far as remaining in control. As I've stated before, I've gotten rides in AMS gt35r powered cars, and until I learn better car control, that's just too much power to play with ... especially on a road course.
I'll post a write-up here shortly ...
l8r)
Sep 10, 2005, 10:25 AM
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AMS GT3071 Review
Alright, I've been driving the new setup for almost a month now, so I guess it's time for some overall impressions of the new setup. I'll do some generic ratings based on a 5 star (*****) rating system (edit: Vishnu stage 1+ = Vishnu v390):
1.) Drivability - (stock = *****, Vishnu stage 1+ = ****1/2, AMS 3071 = ****)
Daily driving was initially a challenge ... I basically had to learn to drive the car from scratch. IMO the stock setup was one of the easiest stick shift cars I've ever driven, but with the larger turbo and other mods, it became a b***h to drive in stop-n-go traffic. The first week had me stall the car on numerous occasions in traffic, and then it_would_not_start! F**k!! Very irritating, to say the least. However, in the second week, things seemed to work a little better - perhaps the ECU "learning"?
- whatever it was, I was learning to handle the new setup a little bit better. I was still getting compressor surge, even though my BOV was adjusted to hold exactly 23psi. This has since been taken care of by going from a Greddy Type-S to a Type-RS. Now, in my 4th week of driving, the car is behaving MUCH better than it did initially. The only time it becomes a pain-in-the-*** is when I accidentally stall it in a parking lot ... for about the next 5 minutes the car does not want to idle worth $hit, but then it's all good again.
One of the things that I really like about the new setup is that it is easier to drive on the interstate ... no more spoolup in 5th gear when I'm going with the traffic flow, and the surge (bucking) I used to get at ~2800rpms in 4th/5th gear on my stage 1+ is also gone. On the same note, though, partial throttle in 5th gear around 4000rpms does lead to some surge - however that is really never an issues, since I downshift into 4th to get full power at those speeds anyways, hehe. The car is also slightly louder than before, even though I have the same exhaust from the DP on back.
Hard driving is amazing ... the car has an amazing amount of power and it seems that the revs just keep on building w/out limit. Very nice, wide powerband ... just as wide as the stock turbo setup, but with the bigger turbo, it's much more usable when you're pushing the car (i.e. upper rpms). Gave a ride to a buddy of mine, and he was very impressed, to say the least. Needless to say, this is exactly what I was shooting for with this build-up.
2.) Power - (stock = ***, Vishnu stage 1+ = ***1/2, AMS 3071 = ****)
- 1st gear pull - haven't tried yet, partially because I like my stock clutch the way it is and besides it'd be over faster than Joe Average having sex with his dream girl, so why bother?
- 2nd gear pull - hits like a hammer, I have to fight torque steer to keep the car pointed straight
- 3rd gear pull - still hits hard, car pulls much harder than before
- 4th gear pull - pulls as hard as 3rd gear used to
- 5th gear pull - no idea yet, I don't have enough open real estate to try
Looking at my dyno charts, the 3071 was a nice next step in the buildup of my Evo. It represents a significant gain over the previous setup, similar to going from a stage 1/91 Ocatne tune to a stage 1+/93 Octane tune. Hammer-time (spool-up) starts at 3500 rpms and the anvil (full boost) drops at just before 4000 rpms. During initial spoolup, the turbo sounds like a freakin' jet engine ... very nice! I've done hard pulls in all gears, except 1st and going from no-spool to full spool seems to happen much quicker than on the stock turbo.
3.) Fit-n-Finish - (stock = *****, Vishnu stage 1+ ****1/2, AMS 3071 = ****1/2)
Both Vishnu and AMS components are top notch. However, just like with the Vishnu stuff, I do have small bones to pick with the AMS kit. AMS' fabrication is on par with the best I've seen, very very nice work. Fit and finish on the turbo kit is excellent. The turbo and exhaust manifold fit perfect and are braced nicely. The downpipe clears the rear cross-brace without spacers, the front cross-brace still needs them, though. Pretty good for a 3" DP. The lower IC pipe is a work of art - but it is free-hanging, not braced like the stocker. IMO a brace would be very welcome. The slim-line fan is bolted directly into the radiator ... I wish I would have known about this before, as I would have insisted on mounting it onto the stock mounting points. FMIC fits very nicely, although I have not had a chance to put my undertray back on, so I don't know if any trimming will be required.
4.) Issues/problems - (stock = *****, Vishnu stage 1+ = ****1/2, AMS 3071 ****)
I guess I'll just list some of the things that had been or are still issues with the setup:
a) Later than anticipated spool.
Initially when I got my car back for its break-in period, I didn't get full spool until after 4000 rpms, not good at all. AMS did a LOT of troubleshooting on my setup after I dropped it back off for the final tuning. Checked cams, turbo, turbo housing, intake, engine compression, etc. After about 2 weeks of wrenching on the car, no reason was found for the late spoolup, so I decided to have the car tuned just as is. After getting the baseline tune we then played with the cam gear setting, and lo-and-behold, we gained over 200rpm in spool-up by going to a +2/0 setting, WITHOUT losing topend power - sweet. This is where the car is at to this day.
b) Compressor surge (fixed).
On the dyno, we were getting some compressor surge when the car wasn't fully warmed up yet. On the street I was getting surge almost all the time. However, instead of bugging AMS about it, I decided to upgrade my BOV from a Greddy Type-S (single spring) to a Greddy Type-RS. Compressor surge is now pretty much gone. I did the same single spring mod to the Type-RS after I got bad surge with both springs still in it. I initially set it up with the adjustment screw almost all the way out (to where the cap on the inside of the BOV sits flush with the top of the chamber) and then tightened it two full turns. I will probably loosen it by 1/2 a turn again, since it is holding past 23psi right now. Driviability improved noticeably with the new BOV. IMO, the Type-S just wasn't able to vent enough air with the 3071...
c) Rev limiter/fuel cut (done).
I have had my ECU at Vishnu twice now to have it reflashed for a 9200rpm fuel cut. It seems that the car wants to go past 8000rpms, but something in the ECU is still cutting fuel right after 8000rpms (~8075 or so). Hopefully Shiv can figure out why at the upcoming dyno day.
FINALLY got my fuel cut set to 9100 rpm, with much complaining from Shiv. The car sounds absolutely sweet going to 9000rpm. Unfortunately the power falls off a little bit more than I'd like past 8000rpm. Oh well, there are always bigger turbos.
d) stalling (work-in-progress)
Much of this has seemed to work itself out. Probably in part due to the new BOV and in part due to the ECU adjusting to the new setup. However, I'm still not happy with the setup. Idle vacuum seems low (between negative 11-13psi) and I am going to have to re-adjust the idle control screw to account for headlight and AC load. I am also building a cold-air-box for the intake, so maybe that will help as well.
I have since adjusted the "BISS", and the car idles much better. It will still stall occasionally (especially with headlights and A/C on at the same time), but I have a theory on that, which I will test over the next few weeks...
e) difficult warm/cold start (work-in-progress)
The car is much more difficult to start when it's warmed up and even worse when it's warmed up and I stall it. Finally figured out that feathering the gas while I crank it over seems to help, though. I have no idea how to address this at this point.
Now, during winter, when temps drop below 20 degrees, or so, the car is also very difficult to start. Basically if it doesn't start on the first try, then I'm f****d for the next 5 minutes or so (kind of like when it stalls). I believe this may have something to do with the XEDE, since the car seems to start better w/out the XEDE plugged in. Need more research, though
f) Oil consumption (work-in-progress)
The new, built 2.0l block is using WAY more oil than with stock internals. We're talking 1 quart every other time I'm at the gas station. That's about 1 quart per 600 miles!! Spoke with AMS about it, and they are going to have to take a look at this. I could see maybe a quart per 1200 miles, but this is, IMO too high.
Overall verdict:
Stock Evolution = *** (very smooth, "quiet", just not enough power)
Vishnu stage 1+ = ****1/2 (just like stock, but faster - the way the car should come from the factory)
AMS GT3071R kit = ****1/2 (lots of power, but at the expense of some drivability)
Overall things have turned out almost as planned. My only small disappointment remains that the setup spools slightly later than I was led to believe it would. However, when I take into account the fact that I am running aggressive cams on top of a built valve train, built block, larger injectors and cone intake, then I can't really gripe too much. This is simply how my car spools, and I'll have to live with it. The car makes tremendous power all the way to it's current redline, and once I get the revlimiter eliminated, I look forward to some sweet sounds on the way to 9000rpms.
l8r)
1.) Drivability - (stock = *****, Vishnu stage 1+ = ****1/2, AMS 3071 = ****)
Daily driving was initially a challenge ... I basically had to learn to drive the car from scratch. IMO the stock setup was one of the easiest stick shift cars I've ever driven, but with the larger turbo and other mods, it became a b***h to drive in stop-n-go traffic. The first week had me stall the car on numerous occasions in traffic, and then it_would_not_start! F**k!! Very irritating, to say the least. However, in the second week, things seemed to work a little better - perhaps the ECU "learning"?
- whatever it was, I was learning to handle the new setup a little bit better. I was still getting compressor surge, even though my BOV was adjusted to hold exactly 23psi. This has since been taken care of by going from a Greddy Type-S to a Type-RS. Now, in my 4th week of driving, the car is behaving MUCH better than it did initially. The only time it becomes a pain-in-the-*** is when I accidentally stall it in a parking lot ... for about the next 5 minutes the car does not want to idle worth $hit, but then it's all good again. One of the things that I really like about the new setup is that it is easier to drive on the interstate ... no more spoolup in 5th gear when I'm going with the traffic flow, and the surge (bucking) I used to get at ~2800rpms in 4th/5th gear on my stage 1+ is also gone. On the same note, though, partial throttle in 5th gear around 4000rpms does lead to some surge - however that is really never an issues, since I downshift into 4th to get full power at those speeds anyways, hehe. The car is also slightly louder than before, even though I have the same exhaust from the DP on back.
Hard driving is amazing ... the car has an amazing amount of power and it seems that the revs just keep on building w/out limit. Very nice, wide powerband ... just as wide as the stock turbo setup, but with the bigger turbo, it's much more usable when you're pushing the car (i.e. upper rpms). Gave a ride to a buddy of mine, and he was very impressed, to say the least. Needless to say, this is exactly what I was shooting for with this build-up.
2.) Power - (stock = ***, Vishnu stage 1+ = ***1/2, AMS 3071 = ****)
- 1st gear pull - haven't tried yet, partially because I like my stock clutch the way it is and besides it'd be over faster than Joe Average having sex with his dream girl, so why bother?
- 2nd gear pull - hits like a hammer, I have to fight torque steer to keep the car pointed straight
- 3rd gear pull - still hits hard, car pulls much harder than before
- 4th gear pull - pulls as hard as 3rd gear used to
- 5th gear pull - no idea yet, I don't have enough open real estate to try
Looking at my dyno charts, the 3071 was a nice next step in the buildup of my Evo. It represents a significant gain over the previous setup, similar to going from a stage 1/91 Ocatne tune to a stage 1+/93 Octane tune. Hammer-time (spool-up) starts at 3500 rpms and the anvil (full boost) drops at just before 4000 rpms. During initial spoolup, the turbo sounds like a freakin' jet engine ... very nice! I've done hard pulls in all gears, except 1st and going from no-spool to full spool seems to happen much quicker than on the stock turbo.
3.) Fit-n-Finish - (stock = *****, Vishnu stage 1+ ****1/2, AMS 3071 = ****1/2)
Both Vishnu and AMS components are top notch. However, just like with the Vishnu stuff, I do have small bones to pick with the AMS kit. AMS' fabrication is on par with the best I've seen, very very nice work. Fit and finish on the turbo kit is excellent. The turbo and exhaust manifold fit perfect and are braced nicely. The downpipe clears the rear cross-brace without spacers, the front cross-brace still needs them, though. Pretty good for a 3" DP. The lower IC pipe is a work of art - but it is free-hanging, not braced like the stocker. IMO a brace would be very welcome. The slim-line fan is bolted directly into the radiator ... I wish I would have known about this before, as I would have insisted on mounting it onto the stock mounting points. FMIC fits very nicely, although I have not had a chance to put my undertray back on, so I don't know if any trimming will be required.
4.) Issues/problems - (stock = *****, Vishnu stage 1+ = ****1/2, AMS 3071 ****)
I guess I'll just list some of the things that had been or are still issues with the setup:
a) Later than anticipated spool.
Initially when I got my car back for its break-in period, I didn't get full spool until after 4000 rpms, not good at all. AMS did a LOT of troubleshooting on my setup after I dropped it back off for the final tuning. Checked cams, turbo, turbo housing, intake, engine compression, etc. After about 2 weeks of wrenching on the car, no reason was found for the late spoolup, so I decided to have the car tuned just as is. After getting the baseline tune we then played with the cam gear setting, and lo-and-behold, we gained over 200rpm in spool-up by going to a +2/0 setting, WITHOUT losing topend power - sweet. This is where the car is at to this day.
b) Compressor surge (fixed).
On the dyno, we were getting some compressor surge when the car wasn't fully warmed up yet. On the street I was getting surge almost all the time. However, instead of bugging AMS about it, I decided to upgrade my BOV from a Greddy Type-S (single spring) to a Greddy Type-RS. Compressor surge is now pretty much gone. I did the same single spring mod to the Type-RS after I got bad surge with both springs still in it. I initially set it up with the adjustment screw almost all the way out (to where the cap on the inside of the BOV sits flush with the top of the chamber) and then tightened it two full turns. I will probably loosen it by 1/2 a turn again, since it is holding past 23psi right now. Driviability improved noticeably with the new BOV. IMO, the Type-S just wasn't able to vent enough air with the 3071...
c) Rev limiter/fuel cut (done).
I have had my ECU at Vishnu twice now to have it reflashed for a 9200rpm fuel cut. It seems that the car wants to go past 8000rpms, but something in the ECU is still cutting fuel right after 8000rpms (~8075 or so). Hopefully Shiv can figure out why at the upcoming dyno day.
FINALLY got my fuel cut set to 9100 rpm, with much complaining from Shiv. The car sounds absolutely sweet going to 9000rpm. Unfortunately the power falls off a little bit more than I'd like past 8000rpm. Oh well, there are always bigger turbos.
d) stalling (work-in-progress)
Much of this has seemed to work itself out. Probably in part due to the new BOV and in part due to the ECU adjusting to the new setup. However, I'm still not happy with the setup. Idle vacuum seems low (between negative 11-13psi) and I am going to have to re-adjust the idle control screw to account for headlight and AC load. I am also building a cold-air-box for the intake, so maybe that will help as well.
I have since adjusted the "BISS", and the car idles much better. It will still stall occasionally (especially with headlights and A/C on at the same time), but I have a theory on that, which I will test over the next few weeks...
e) difficult warm/cold start (work-in-progress)
The car is much more difficult to start when it's warmed up and even worse when it's warmed up and I stall it. Finally figured out that feathering the gas while I crank it over seems to help, though. I have no idea how to address this at this point.
Now, during winter, when temps drop below 20 degrees, or so, the car is also very difficult to start. Basically if it doesn't start on the first try, then I'm f****d for the next 5 minutes or so (kind of like when it stalls). I believe this may have something to do with the XEDE, since the car seems to start better w/out the XEDE plugged in. Need more research, though
f) Oil consumption (work-in-progress)
The new, built 2.0l block is using WAY more oil than with stock internals. We're talking 1 quart every other time I'm at the gas station. That's about 1 quart per 600 miles!! Spoke with AMS about it, and they are going to have to take a look at this. I could see maybe a quart per 1200 miles, but this is, IMO too high.
Overall verdict:
Stock Evolution = *** (very smooth, "quiet", just not enough power)
Vishnu stage 1+ = ****1/2 (just like stock, but faster - the way the car should come from the factory)
AMS GT3071R kit = ****1/2 (lots of power, but at the expense of some drivability)
Overall things have turned out almost as planned. My only small disappointment remains that the setup spools slightly later than I was led to believe it would. However, when I take into account the fact that I am running aggressive cams on top of a built valve train, built block, larger injectors and cone intake, then I can't really gripe too much. This is simply how my car spools, and I'll have to live with it. The car makes tremendous power all the way to it's current redline, and once I get the revlimiter eliminated, I look forward to some sweet sounds on the way to 9000rpms.
l8r)
Last edited by Ludikraut; Jan 5, 2006 at 11:04 AM. Reason: 4 month update
Nov 6, 2005, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by EFIxMR
what is your car tuned with? lots of your gripes seems like tuning issues. due to the stock ecu and piggy back.
Nov 16, 2005, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by EFIxMR
what is your car tuned with? lots of your gripes seems like tuning issues. due to the stock ecu and piggy back.
l8r)
Nov 16, 2005, 03:45 PM
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Ok, time to start catching up on some misc. stuff I've been working on.
First off, the "Ashtray Project". It's coming along nicer than I thought it would. Here's some pics of the initial mock-up. Left keyswitch (momentary switch) is to calibrate the LC-1 wideband sensor, right keyswitch is to switch between the XEDE maps, and I decided to extend the XEDE serial interface as well.
l8r)
First off, the "Ashtray Project". It's coming along nicer than I thought it would. Here's some pics of the initial mock-up. Left keyswitch (momentary switch) is to calibrate the LC-1 wideband sensor, right keyswitch is to switch between the XEDE maps, and I decided to extend the XEDE serial interface as well.
l8r)
