WRX WALBRO fuel pump install into EVO - easy
Jul 9, 2003, 05:29 PM
#16
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Bryan,
Actually, all fuel pumps can either provide more pressure or more flow. The more flow, the lower the pressure. The fuel pressure regulator will bleed off excess pressure to keep it constant, but the fuel pump can actually fail to provide high enough flow and still maintain the required pressure (which is usually 43.5 psi plus boost or so).
Al is right. He is a smart and experienced modder. His EVO is sprinting down the 1/4 in 11.8 and he had owned a similar WRX.
You need to do a little more research on pumps.
Here is a link to a testing of several different fuel pumps.
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/fue.../pump_test.jpg
Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com
Actually, all fuel pumps can either provide more pressure or more flow. The more flow, the lower the pressure. The fuel pressure regulator will bleed off excess pressure to keep it constant, but the fuel pump can actually fail to provide high enough flow and still maintain the required pressure (which is usually 43.5 psi plus boost or so).
Al is right. He is a smart and experienced modder. His EVO is sprinting down the 1/4 in 11.8 and he had owned a similar WRX.
You need to do a little more research on pumps.
Here is a link to a testing of several different fuel pumps.
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/fue.../pump_test.jpg
Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com
Jul 9, 2003, 08:31 PM
#17
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Quantom, maybe you need to read the conversation here before you decide to give us your most intelligent *cough* response. The subject here is he is saying the stock fuel pump will drop pressure as a person makes more HP. Did anyone say anything about changing lines/changing fpr's/changing injectors? I think not. The stock fuel pump will not drop pressure as you make more horsepower on a car with no fuel mods. It is stupid to think it will. Please explain to me exactly would is different between buschurs 350 hp machine's fuel system and a stock evo to make anyone believe it would drop fuel pressure only because it is making more HP? I would comment on your theories regarding *cough* flow/pressure *cough* but that is another subject and I would like to stick to the one at hand.
bryan
bryan
Jul 10, 2003, 09:16 AM
#18
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At higher rpm and higher boost pressure and the fuel flow demands are greater, the flow the fuel pump can produce can become insufficient. To compensate, you can increase the duty cycle on the injectors. 5ms of fuel at 60 psi is more than 5ms of fuel at 55 psi but it may be, the same as 5.5 ms at 55 psi. If you aren't watching the fuel pressure (as Al is; with a Defi fuel pressure gauge), you may never know that you are running out of fuel a bit. Pushing a pump like that can become a little bit unpredictable.
In such cases as you noted, Buschur may be using EGT and a wideband to tune the car on a dyno. They see it's lean so they add fuel. That simple. It may need a bit more duty cycle because the fuel pump isn't keeping up. BTW, I believe Buschur's numbers are quoted on a 2WD dyno. Al is faster. Buschur is at 12.4, Al is at 11.8. He has bigger demands.
These are all from their claims. I have not seen either car in person. Buschur claims they haven't had fuel pressure problems (don't know what they are using to monitor). Al claims to have had a bit of a problem. Either way, if you push it far enough, it will fail.
Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com
In such cases as you noted, Buschur may be using EGT and a wideband to tune the car on a dyno. They see it's lean so they add fuel. That simple. It may need a bit more duty cycle because the fuel pump isn't keeping up. BTW, I believe Buschur's numbers are quoted on a 2WD dyno. Al is faster. Buschur is at 12.4, Al is at 11.8. He has bigger demands.
These are all from their claims. I have not seen either car in person. Buschur claims they haven't had fuel pressure problems (don't know what they are using to monitor). Al claims to have had a bit of a problem. Either way, if you push it far enough, it will fail.
Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com
Last edited by QuantumEVO; Jul 10, 2003 at 09:27 AM.
Jul 10, 2003, 09:25 AM
#19
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Why is this in the How To's/Installations section? Moderators must be getting lazy. At least post pics of the parts and location for installation. This should be in the tech section.
Jul 10, 2003, 10:09 AM
#22
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Originally posted by QuantumEVO
At higher rpm and higher boost pressure and the fuel flow demands are greater, the flow the fuel pump can produce can become insufficient. To compensate, you can increase the duty cycle on the injectors. 5ms of fuel at 60 psi is more than 5ms of fuel at 55 psi but it may be, the same as 5.5 ms at 55 psi. If you aren't watching the fuel pressure (as Al is; with a Defi fuel pressure gauge), you may never know that you are running out of fuel a bit. Pushing a pump like that can become a little bit unpredictable.
In such cases as you noted, Buschur may be using EGT and a wideband to tune the car on a dyno. They see it's lean so they add fuel. That simple. It may need a bit more duty cycle because the fuel pump isn't keeping up. BTW, I believe Buschur's numbers are quoted on a 2WD dyno. Al is faster. Buschur is at 12.4, Al is at 11.8. He has bigger demands.
These are all from their claims. I have not seen either car in person. Buschur claims they haven't had fuel pressure problems (don't know what they are using to monitor). Al claims to have had a bit of a problem. Either way, if you push it far enough, it will fail.
Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com
At higher rpm and higher boost pressure and the fuel flow demands are greater, the flow the fuel pump can produce can become insufficient. To compensate, you can increase the duty cycle on the injectors. 5ms of fuel at 60 psi is more than 5ms of fuel at 55 psi but it may be, the same as 5.5 ms at 55 psi. If you aren't watching the fuel pressure (as Al is; with a Defi fuel pressure gauge), you may never know that you are running out of fuel a bit. Pushing a pump like that can become a little bit unpredictable.
In such cases as you noted, Buschur may be using EGT and a wideband to tune the car on a dyno. They see it's lean so they add fuel. That simple. It may need a bit more duty cycle because the fuel pump isn't keeping up. BTW, I believe Buschur's numbers are quoted on a 2WD dyno. Al is faster. Buschur is at 12.4, Al is at 11.8. He has bigger demands.
These are all from their claims. I have not seen either car in person. Buschur claims they haven't had fuel pressure problems (don't know what they are using to monitor). Al claims to have had a bit of a problem. Either way, if you push it far enough, it will fail.
Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com
I fully understand what you are saying but the only reason he would be experiencing fuel fluctuations is if he is running a wet shot... otherwise there would be no other reason why anyone’s fuel pressure would fluctuate going from stock HP to bolt on HP, unless they changed injectors/fuel pump or faulty/over run FPR. So he should say that the stock fuel pump can not keep up when you are trying to hit a 50 wet shot...
bryan
Last edited by bryans2k; Jul 10, 2003 at 10:12 AM.
Jul 10, 2003, 10:12 AM
#23
Originally posted by bryans2k
I fully understand what you are saying but the only reason he would be experincing fuel fluctuations is if he is running a wet shot... otherwise there would be no other reason why anyones fuel pressure would fluctuate going from stock HP to bolt on HP, unless they changed injectors/fuel pump or faulty/over run fpr. So he should say that the stock fuel pump can not keep up when you are trying to hit a 50 wet shot...
bryan
I fully understand what you are saying but the only reason he would be experincing fuel fluctuations is if he is running a wet shot... otherwise there would be no other reason why anyones fuel pressure would fluctuate going from stock HP to bolt on HP, unless they changed injectors/fuel pump or faulty/over run fpr. So he should say that the stock fuel pump can not keep up when you are trying to hit a 50 wet shot...
bryan
WITHOUT any NOS at all - my car runs 331 wheel dyno jet awd HP - on the stock pump it can't maintain the pressure over 6,000 rpm
Do with that info as you like - but please understand that you are wrong with your theory
Jul 10, 2003, 10:20 AM
#24
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Originally posted by Alfriedesq
Respectfully - you don't know what you are talking about and are seriously ignorant on these matters
WITHOUT any NOS at all - my car runs 331 wheel dyno jet awd HP - on the stock pump it can't maintain the pressure over 6,000 rpm
Do with that info as you like - but please understand that you are wrong with your theory
Respectfully - you don't know what you are talking about and are seriously ignorant on these matters
WITHOUT any NOS at all - my car runs 331 wheel dyno jet awd HP - on the stock pump it can't maintain the pressure over 6,000 rpm
Do with that info as you like - but please understand that you are wrong with your theory
bryan
Last edited by bryans2k; Jul 10, 2003 at 10:25 AM.
Jul 10, 2003, 12:31 PM
#26
Originally posted by bryans2k
How am I seriously ignorant? You have changed your fuel system by changing the FPR (pruven's fpr). How do you know for a fact that it was not your FPR (pruven's fpr)? You are the one who is seriously ignorant. Just because you are making more HP does not mean your fuel system (everything being stock fuel wise) is going to change it's operation all of a sudden. Yes, you might run lean on the stock fuel system but it does not mean you are dropping fuel pressure. You are simply making more HP than the stock fuel system can handle, is this so hard for you to understand? Just because you have a problem with your fuel system does not mean you can put all EVO's in the same boat. You modified your fuel system from stock. You have a problem unique to your setup. It could be many things related to your modification to the fuel system (vacuum line/fpr/etc.)... Get a clue...
bryan
How am I seriously ignorant? You have changed your fuel system by changing the FPR (pruven's fpr). How do you know for a fact that it was not your FPR (pruven's fpr)? You are the one who is seriously ignorant. Just because you are making more HP does not mean your fuel system (everything being stock fuel wise) is going to change it's operation all of a sudden. Yes, you might run lean on the stock fuel system but it does not mean you are dropping fuel pressure. You are simply making more HP than the stock fuel system can handle, is this so hard for you to understand? Just because you have a problem with your fuel system does not mean you can put all EVO's in the same boat. You modified your fuel system from stock. You have a problem unique to your setup. It could be many things related to your modification to the fuel system (vacuum line/fpr/etc.)... Get a clue...
bryan
Jul 11, 2003, 09:00 PM
#27
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Originally posted by Alfriedesq
Mark - thanks for the defense! I have learned that there are some peopel who just don't "get it" no matter what you say .
Hope your car is well - looking forward to seeing some more mods from you in the future !
Mark - thanks for the defense! I have learned that there are some peopel who just don't "get it" no matter what you say .
Hope your car is well - looking forward to seeing some more mods from you in the future !
PS: The How TO's/installation section is for tech guides on how to install items yourself. NOT for asking questions, debating setups, or saying you know how without a descriptive FAQ.
Jul 12, 2003, 08:16 AM
#28
Originally posted by Evilution
Just don't get what? That this thread has nothing to do with an actual FAQ or installation guide? This thread should NOT be in the How To's section without an actual step by step guide or at least pics of said item installation. It's like me saying the short shifter is a drop in mod and leaving it at that. Do you know how many people would be lost off of that? Not only that you've turned this thread into an argument with people about your setup. Another reason this shouldn't be in the How To's section.
PS: The How TO's/installation section is for tech guides on how to install items yourself. NOT for asking questions, debating setups, or saying you know how without a descriptive FAQ.
Just don't get what? That this thread has nothing to do with an actual FAQ or installation guide? This thread should NOT be in the How To's section without an actual step by step guide or at least pics of said item installation. It's like me saying the short shifter is a drop in mod and leaving it at that. Do you know how many people would be lost off of that? Not only that you've turned this thread into an argument with people about your setup. Another reason this shouldn't be in the How To's section.
PS: The How TO's/installation section is for tech guides on how to install items yourself. NOT for asking questions, debating setups, or saying you know how without a descriptive FAQ.
Jul 13, 2003, 03:01 PM
#30
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Originally posted by Alfriedesq
Its idiots like you that make guys like me have serious reservations about posting up ANY information about what we are doing. I'm offering up FREE info about something I had to research and test on my own - if your not interested - don't read it. If you doubt the need - don't do it ! Get off my case and get a life!
Its idiots like you that make guys like me have serious reservations about posting up ANY information about what we are doing. I'm offering up FREE info about something I had to research and test on my own - if your not interested - don't read it. If you doubt the need - don't do it ! Get off my case and get a life!
bryan