evilution310

theres no blind following, his setups are pruven not to mention the 10yrs of suspension tuning experience. Im not trying to start a fight either just informing the person asking the question of other setups.

whitet777

iTrader: (6)

Ok, I admit Mueller has a good reputation. But can anyone explain what he does that is so "magical"?

unowned

iTrader: (2)

I had the first set of JICs tuned by Mueller for a 3G put on my car, and it was amazing the way it handles and still handles. I can say it will out handle the Stock Evo in the corners by a long shot even with worse tires. I plan on getting my Evo done the by Mueller as well just now he has two options for suspension

Well basicly he gets some information on how you plan to use the car, and what kinds of modifications you have done, driving experience (racing level), etc. Then he personally tunes the suspension for the way you want it to drive and the way mitsubishis were supposed to turn. There is no way you can say that the optimal one time setup is good for every kind of racing, so this is why out of the box is not good.

strongbear0

iTrader: (8)

Do some research here on the boards and you'll see that the jic build quality and customer service leave a lot to be desired. I have held the buddy clubs and the jics in my hand and the buddy club is a very high quality product.

strongbear0

iTrader: (8)

I don't really think that ansewered the question. What exactly does he do? How many ways can you set up a coilover with a set adjustment for dampening and rebound? Other than rebound and dampening what does he do? Does he adjust toe in and out? You are talking about things that might pick up .02-.05 on a race track but will not be felt on the street. Not everyone has 2250.00 to spend on suspension especially when there are products out there that perform just as good if not better.

whitet777

iTrader: (6)

Here are the magical coilover suspension variables that I can think of. Of these, I only see one that the average guy couldn't figure out on his own:

-Spring Rate
-Spring Pre-load
-Rebound/Compression settings
-Ride Height
-Corner Balancing
-Camber
-Toe
-Valving (the only hard variable, and the one best left to the manufacturer)

I'd be happy to share any of these "magical" settings with you for free so that you too can be free of the myth of a magical coilover setup.

whitet777

iTrader: (6)

These are the replies that actually make people fear there is magic in suspension setup.

Quote taken from thread: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=132646

evilution310

stop kidding yourself about the average guy knowing how to set up his own suspension, bottom line is the muellerized evos have all the road racing wins, even sparco had John tune there suspension.

500whp.com

iTrader: (86)

these are pretty well builded coilovers! Have all the things you are looking for in a coilover! Price is a lot more friendly!


https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=126283

Stop&TurnFreak

All, I am not going to argue who is better, Mueller or AMS for setting up Buddy Clubs. Corner-weighing a car is not magic, it is simple math, and it is something I have been doing since I was racing go-karts over 20 years ago (man, I feel old now, thanks).

What you all need to focus on is finding a tuner who can not only provide you a competitive solution out of the box, but can also provide you the time and resources to help modify your suspension solution as your needs, driving style, and horsepower levels changes.

For example, I would classify myself kind of the extreme. Much to the dismay of AMS, I setup my car for every event, differently. I change corner weights, alignment, caster, camber, ride height, pretty much everything depending on the track I am going too and the tires I will be running. To me, the fun part is coming up with the perfect solution to get the car around the track. AMS has been there consulting and brainstorming with me with these decisions at every corner, and I can tell you the car continues to get faster, while running at the same power levels. Once I get the car to a place where it is fast, no where the car performs to a level that is 'Public and brutal', then I will start to add even more power, and a full cage!!!

For me, the folks at AMS have met my needs, not only out of the box, but helping me to continue to tweak and tune depending on the situation. This is something which needs to be weighed, when making your decisions for suspension solutions.

superman105

iTrader: (11)

whitet777
I want to go your route,
it would be great for one to learn how to tune his own suspension
can you let me know your setup.

I always felt everyone's driving style is different and suspension is something one might like and one might not like how is setup and every setup is unique

by learning how to setup your own suspension you can feel and know what you want and make changes to it. Instead of letting other people telling you what's good and what's not

whitet777

iTrader: (6)

Well, I'll share what I have so far. This is still a work in progress because I did just install the Buddy Clubs. After a few events, I'm sure I tweak a few things here or there. This should get everyone a decent start though for autocross and daily driving.

Coilovers: Buddy Clubs 10k front, 8k rear
Rear Sway: Hotchkis adjustable set on mid stiff
Front Sway: Stock
Tires: Hankook R-S2 245/45/17 43psi front, 38psi rear
Alignment: 2.7 negative front camber, 1.5 negative rear camber 1/16" toe out front and rear
Ride Height: about 3/4" lower front and rear equally
Damper Setting: 7f/7r for daily driving, 10f/11r for autocross (this is still in experimentation)
Spring Preload: just turn collar until slop is out of springs, and turn like 1 more turn.
Corner Weighting: 50.0% equal corner to corner

Edit: See revised settings below. I changed rear sway settings to full stiff.

john@rre

In the case of the suspension that we offer that is manufactured by Buddyclub Japan, the entire shock assembly was redesigned utilizing a larger diameter valving stack when compared to the version that other shops are selling. The first run of parts were tested by me on Robi's EVO starting in late May of last year, and were proven to be totally inadequate for sale for the US market. Both from the standpoint of track performance and streetability. These are the same parts that other shops have run and are planning to sell for cheap with group buys etc. The suspensions available from Road///Race Chassis are available only from our shop, either preset for mail order customers or installed and tuned here at our shop. The prototypes for our suspensions were first tested last December, then made available for sale last month. We have sets in stock and ready to ship right now. We are the only people currently racing modified EVOs in SCCA club racing(leading San Francisco Region ITE points for 2005) and have been using our Motec ADL system to get the most out of our set-ups. We ran our EVOs for 44 days of on track testing, tuning and racing in 2004, so far in 2005 I have spent 13 on track days taking our parts to a higher level. This weekend we will be at Thunderhill from Fri-Sun. Also we offer JIC, DMS and Ohlin suspension for the EVO, all of which can be tailored to each person's application.

Thanks all for your interest in these suspensions.

whitet777

iTrader: (6)

I have some more feedback on the Buddy Club coilovers from AMS after the first autocross event. I LOVE THEM. Talk about completely changing the handling of the car. The car slaloms so flat now. The turn-in is excellent. I have to change the way I drive the car now. I am turning in too early and hitting cones on the inside of corners. Also, the amazing thing is my front wheel spin on corner exit is almost eliminated. That alone is a huge benefit. My first event with them, I was probably only driving 8/10th's of what it could do just because that was equivalent to 10/10ths with the old setup.

I did make a few more tweaks. I put the rear sway bar up to full stiff, and it still isn't stiff enough. I can't get the back end of the car to rotate quite as much as I want. The car is very neutral right now, which some prefer. But, I came from a RX-7TT and love the oversteer. I may play with rear dampner settings more or tire pressures. I found on the smooth asphalt at Miller Park that 10front and 11rear dampner settings worked well. I went 11/12 at one point, but the car started to hop a bit on the bumpier corners.

Also, I have the dampner set down to 5f/6r for the road right now, and it rides very smooth. Much better than stock.

gnulooks

iTrader: (1)

John, its good to hear that you are now selling and tuning the Ohlin's suspension. I am wondering what the differences are between the two after you do your magic. In other words, how do the Ohlins and Buddy Club differ on the track and how do they feel for everyday street driving. Also, what what be the price difference between the two if you did a full suspension set up.

Thanks in advance, Gnulooks.