eevoo

iTrader: (10)

Woah! Tim what's up man, I just tuned in from a bit of a hiatus on the board - glad to see your impressions on the buddy club. Not sure when I'll be getting back up to Milwaukee, been having a busy summer. Anyway, keep the info coming, looks like you made a good purchase there.

whitet777

iTrader: (6)

Nate,

Glad to hear from you. I still love the Buddy Clubs even though I am fine tuning the dampner settings now. I threw on a rear strut tower brace recently to get some more oversteer, and boy what a difference! I spun 5 times this last weekend at an autocross!

See you in Milwaukee sometime.

Strider

iTrader: (1)

A little more history on John Mueller for you: http://www.roadraceengineering.com/e...ch/mueller.htm

whitet777

iTrader: (6)

I'm not arguing that John Mueller knows what he is doing. He undeniably is skilled. I'm just saying there is no reason that any one of us couldn't set up a suspension the same way he does. There are only so many variables available to us with a coilover setup.

evilution310

well as he has already posted the buddy clubs that you bought from ams arent the same as the custom spec ones he sells and im not talking about spring rates.

john@rre

I call bull****. Without the firsthand experience and resources that I have at my disposal, I say it is an impossibility that you could end up in the exact same place we are in set-up wise. My customers reap the benefit of many, many miles of testing and racing, and find themselves dollars ahead purchasing suspension solutions from our company that work right out of the box.

whitet777

iTrader: (6)

Who's to say that someone on the forums (for example Eric Stemler or Mark Daddio) doesn't happen to know just as much or more than RRE on suspension setup. I think it's a bold statement to say that only RRE knows the magical setup.

Strider

iTrader: (1)

That's the difference. John has made a living building and racing cars. His cars aren't setup by what the latest jaydeem magazine brags about, but by years of first hand track experience making cars turn. No one setup will work for every driver, and John knows this. Each car is setup to meet the drivers needs/wants/experience.

You don't even have to take my word for it, just look around these boards and you'll see what John has done with these 4-door ****boxes. Take a look at the 2004 EvoM Tuner Shootout results. Hell, the car that took 2nd place was on a stock turbo even. John set a new track record at Willow Springs in the Open Track Challenge T3 class in an EVO with very few "go fast goodies" (the car still had A/C, stereo, etc.) There is also the 2G GSX drag queen that won the road course in SCC USCC a few years ago, beating out a Viper, etc. The list goes on and on about what John has done for many different cars. The facts speak for themselves.

Strider

iTrader: (1)

I don't think anyone is saying that only John Mueller/RRE has the magic pixie dust to make cars turn, but I challenge you to find someone else who has as much track time with EVO's as John does. I'm not just talking about driving, but fine tuning the suspension for different individuals and tracks as well.

whitet777

iTrader: (6)

Here's me , Here's a wall l l
Here's me talking to a wall

RRE may be great at what they do, but other's might achieve similar greatness by experimenting, testing variables, talking to experienced people at autocrosses and tracks, and doing some of their own calculations.

Let's get back on track here. I still think the buddy clubs are doing great. I think that is what this post was about wasn't it?

Strider

iTrader: (1)

Uh huh. How about this, believe whatever makes you happiest!

No one ever said this was a bad thing.

Sure thing, I agree, and I think so.

whitet777

iTrader: (6)

I had an idea and would be curious to see if RRE would be interested in winning me as a life-long customer.

I would happily trade in my current AMS setup Buddy Clubs with 1000 miles on them for a RRE optimized Buddy Club setup, and pay the difference in price between their custom setup and Buddy Club's out-of-the-box price. Maybe after trying the RRE setup, I realize the error in my ways.

Does RRE wanna try this?

Strider

iTrader: (1)

I really don't know. I would say E-Mail and/or call John and ask.

john@rre

What I am supposed to do with your used suspension? It has no value to me at all. I still have my baseline set of Buddyclub's, they sit in my parts room gathering dust, as they are useless on an EVO.

I would be happy to help you obtain a higher level of performance from your EVO, as we do with all of our customers, thanks for your interest in our products.

whitet777

iTrader: (6)

I think AMS would argue that they are not useless on an Evo. Seems to me that they took 2nd in One Lap with that setup. I run them very successfully in the Milwaukee region in STU, and my friend has the same setup in ESP doing very well also.

Also, the attitude shown above combined with the fact I tried in vain for over a month to purchase JIC's from you has been a huge turnoff. I don't see how a customer with money and an open mind can be turned away after countless tries. I even got a call back once from someone at RRE saying that you had too many orders to take mine.

If anyone has legitimate questions about the Buddy Clubs without trying to bash them like John above, I'd be happy to answer them. Otherwise, this thread is pointless.

Tim