The definitive Tanabe SEVEN & TEAS thread!
Nov 7, 2005, 05:38 PM
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The definitive Tanabe SEVEN & TEAS thread!
Greetings Evo tuners!
As some of you may know, we have finished developing new suspension units for the EVO8/MR/EVO9.
The new Tanabe suspensions-- the Sustec Pro SEVEN & the speed sensing TEAS suspension controller are very new, and very different.
We received a great response on the units we had ony display at SEMA, so we would like to take the opportunity to field any questions you may have about the suspension, since this is a rather complex, and completely different (internally) from anything currently available.
Please see this page first before asking a question:
http://www.tanabe-usa.com/coilovers/seven.asp
This suspension has the capability of connecting to the speed sensor on the transmission, and you will be able to program the suspension to actively change dampening force across 9 points within a 30-120mph range.
As some of you may know, we have finished developing new suspension units for the EVO8/MR/EVO9.
The new Tanabe suspensions-- the Sustec Pro SEVEN & the speed sensing TEAS suspension controller are very new, and very different.
We received a great response on the units we had ony display at SEMA, so we would like to take the opportunity to field any questions you may have about the suspension, since this is a rather complex, and completely different (internally) from anything currently available.
Please see this page first before asking a question:
http://www.tanabe-usa.com/coilovers/seven.asp
This suspension has the capability of connecting to the speed sensor on the transmission, and you will be able to program the suspension to actively change dampening force across 9 points within a 30-120mph range.
Nov 7, 2005, 08:20 PM
#3
I have a question: is this TEAS system able to react quickly enough to adjust damping on an auto-x course, or a road course? If its adjustments are made via signals from the VSS, how quickly can it account for the changes in vehicle velocity that most people will see during auto-x and other hpde's?
Or is its purpose non-racing in nature?
Or is its purpose non-racing in nature?
Nov 8, 2005, 01:04 PM
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I'm asuming the shock body is steel and not aluminum? What's the body diameter on these puppies? How about the piston diameter or is that irrelevant with slide valves? The compression damping curve doesn't seem to vary much. Spring rates...what are the spring rates for the Evo? How do they compare in damping to say the high end coil-overs from Aragosta and Ohlins? Are they sensitive enough to provide good compression damping over small, sharp-edged bumps?
Nov 9, 2005, 05:30 PM
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This suspension, while it's appearance is not very different from other suspensions currently available is completely different internally from what most people are accustomed to.
This suspension uses what is called a "slide valve" to control the hydraulics that affect the compression and rebound of the dampener. This is a new technology proprietary to the Sustec Pro SEVEN.
The most common valving found in virtually all suspensions available is the "needle valve". Less common is the "rotary valve"
Why did we change the valving, and help develop a new valve for the SEVEN?
Simply, the other valving types would not work properly, or have an actual performance benefit when joined with our TEAS speed sensing controller that continuously adjusts the suspension.
Description and explanation of valving types
Needle valve - this type of valve is somewhat like a ballpoint pen. There is one opening, with a rod that moves up and down to adjust the flow of oil. The problem with needle valves is that they can be fragile (many needle valve suspensions will break if you set it too far) and are not as predictable in providing a linear adjustment on each setting. Almost all of the common suspensions use this.
ex:
setting 1: +5%
setting 2: +2%
setting 3: +18%
This is due to the fluid dynamics and pressures involved at various temperatures. This would result in unpredictable handling and negate any kind of functional benefit when joined with the TEAS active controller.
Rotary Valve - This can be visualized as a disc inside the shock piston that has different sized holes. When you turn the dial, it switches to a different sized orifice. This type of valving can provide more linear adjustments, but is limited in the amount of adjustments it can make, since the orifice sizes must be able to fit on the 'disc'.
If we had joined this type of valve with the TEAS active controller, it would fail to work and be dangerous, as in-between settings, there would be a brief blockage and be minimal fluid passthrough which would overcome the seals and cause a full 'stiff' setting.
Slide Valve - This is the hydraulic dampener valve we had developed for use with the TEAS. It operates like a shutter door and has a much larger orifice than the needle and rotary valve types. This valve is proprietary to the SEVEN suspension currently, and it cannot be found on other suspensions. The range on the slide valve allows for a much wider compression and rebound rates, meaning it can be compatible with many different spring rates, and be used for many purposes. The adjustments are more linear, since the shutter door and adjustment dial adjust linearly, within a 135 degree sweep range, and each 'click' represents a percentage open or closed.
The slide valve is why the TEAS speed sensing controller and actuators work, and have actual function. Since the compression and rebound rates change predictably and more linearly, it has a true performance function. The actuators we use change the settings in 0.013 seconds upon hitting one of the programmed speed triggers. It had to be developed to work fast, or else it would have no purpose, as it would actuate too late to have any discernable benefit.
This suspension has been in development for quite some time, and has been fully tested. It is used on Nagisa Auto's super lap cars, it was fully tested by GT Driver Kaneishi Katsumoto, and we had developed several prototypes on Chris Forsberg's 350Z.
Currently, the TEAS actuates using speed signal input. The dampener technology is here, and for anything more, it is only a matter of time and software.
This suspension uses what is called a "slide valve" to control the hydraulics that affect the compression and rebound of the dampener. This is a new technology proprietary to the Sustec Pro SEVEN.
The most common valving found in virtually all suspensions available is the "needle valve". Less common is the "rotary valve"
Why did we change the valving, and help develop a new valve for the SEVEN?
Simply, the other valving types would not work properly, or have an actual performance benefit when joined with our TEAS speed sensing controller that continuously adjusts the suspension.
Description and explanation of valving types
Needle valve - this type of valve is somewhat like a ballpoint pen. There is one opening, with a rod that moves up and down to adjust the flow of oil. The problem with needle valves is that they can be fragile (many needle valve suspensions will break if you set it too far) and are not as predictable in providing a linear adjustment on each setting. Almost all of the common suspensions use this.
ex:
setting 1: +5%
setting 2: +2%
setting 3: +18%
This is due to the fluid dynamics and pressures involved at various temperatures. This would result in unpredictable handling and negate any kind of functional benefit when joined with the TEAS active controller.
Rotary Valve - This can be visualized as a disc inside the shock piston that has different sized holes. When you turn the dial, it switches to a different sized orifice. This type of valving can provide more linear adjustments, but is limited in the amount of adjustments it can make, since the orifice sizes must be able to fit on the 'disc'.
If we had joined this type of valve with the TEAS active controller, it would fail to work and be dangerous, as in-between settings, there would be a brief blockage and be minimal fluid passthrough which would overcome the seals and cause a full 'stiff' setting.
Slide Valve - This is the hydraulic dampener valve we had developed for use with the TEAS. It operates like a shutter door and has a much larger orifice than the needle and rotary valve types. This valve is proprietary to the SEVEN suspension currently, and it cannot be found on other suspensions. The range on the slide valve allows for a much wider compression and rebound rates, meaning it can be compatible with many different spring rates, and be used for many purposes. The adjustments are more linear, since the shutter door and adjustment dial adjust linearly, within a 135 degree sweep range, and each 'click' represents a percentage open or closed.
The slide valve is why the TEAS speed sensing controller and actuators work, and have actual function. Since the compression and rebound rates change predictably and more linearly, it has a true performance function. The actuators we use change the settings in 0.013 seconds upon hitting one of the programmed speed triggers. It had to be developed to work fast, or else it would have no purpose, as it would actuate too late to have any discernable benefit.
This suspension has been in development for quite some time, and has been fully tested. It is used on Nagisa Auto's super lap cars, it was fully tested by GT Driver Kaneishi Katsumoto, and we had developed several prototypes on Chris Forsberg's 350Z.
Currently, the TEAS actuates using speed signal input. The dampener technology is here, and for anything more, it is only a matter of time and software.
Nov 9, 2005, 05:42 PM
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shock body is steel, we will get the casing diameter for the CT9A for you.
For CT9A, you can purchase the system with 12/10kgmm rates or 14/12kgmm rates.
Compression damping is very linear, while the rebound has a much more digressive curve. Over small bumps, on the lower settings, compression was very good using either of the spring rates; rebound force|speed is more than ample even at lower rates to prevent any oscillation of the spring.
Unfortunately, we can't comment on the other manufacturer's suspensions.
For CT9A, you can purchase the system with 12/10kgmm rates or 14/12kgmm rates.
Compression damping is very linear, while the rebound has a much more digressive curve. Over small bumps, on the lower settings, compression was very good using either of the spring rates; rebound force|speed is more than ample even at lower rates to prevent any oscillation of the spring.
Unfortunately, we can't comment on the other manufacturer's suspensions.
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Nov 10, 2005, 07:08 AM
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Has this product been brought up to clubs like the SCCA yet? I know in many track/autocross events dampening controllers like the Tein EDFC and the Cusco E-Con has are not allowed. Will there, or do you anticipate there to be similar issues with the TEAS system?
BTW, thanks for posting dyno graphs on your site. I can't stand it when suspension manufacturers don't.
BTW, thanks for posting dyno graphs on your site. I can't stand it when suspension manufacturers don't.
Last edited by Tsurara; Nov 10, 2005 at 07:10 AM.
Nov 10, 2005, 02:45 PM
#11
Originally Posted by Tsurara
Has this product been brought up to clubs like the SCCA yet? I know in many track/autocross events dampening controllers like the Tein EDFC and the Cusco E-Con has are not allowed. Will there, or do you anticipate there to be similar issues with the TEAS system?
BTW, thanks for posting dyno graphs on your site. I can't stand it when suspension manufacturers don't.
BTW, thanks for posting dyno graphs on your site. I can't stand it when suspension manufacturers don't.
